My fourth and fifth step

[sexlessw]

Moonlight:

When I read your "negative" list - all I could think of is "Wow, that dude is a real user - collect and discard."

That's what your list is showing me.

Does it show you the same thing?

I feel badly for his children - imagine how many good, loving women are going to be filtered through their father's use & discard life. What is that teaching them?

However, that's just something that you cannot contemplate at this time. You is where it's at. You and where you're going to.

[knowlove]

Moonlight, thank you for starting this thread. it is so interesting to see how well you can look at your situation and pick these things out.
I too have both grandiose and inferior thoughts! Funny, I didn't ever think I had real insecurity issues and was very surprised after coming to the board to find it was a huge issue for me. As Quinn says, we are supposed to let go of resentments as par tof pour steps process but putting it down really helps us see where they are, how some are tied to the same feelings and emotions and where they are all originating from. I am still learning all these.
Thanks for sharing your 4th step with us. You are helping some of us as well as yourself!

[moonlight]

Thanks!

I agree with you that my ex's behavior shows he's not a good partner for me. I think his behavior stems from fear, I don't think he's enjoying it. But I do deserve better than that.

I"m reading this book with steps towards a life without fear (almost, of course if you come across a tiger you should run for your life). It has eight "truths", of which the second one is: "everyone is innocent". It encourages you to see people's actions as coming from fear, not to take them personal. It does say that maybe 2% of all people is mean, but most of them aren't. If I feel good about myself, this is how I see other people as well. I'll recommend this book in the literature section, it really helps me.

[sexlessw]

Moonlight: There is wisdom there - fear makes people act contrary to their true selves. Lack of trust too.

I agree 2% are mean. I firmly believe there are more people in this world who wish to HELP us than to HARM us.

Do post the book in the Literature Section - do we have a Literature Section? I'm lost now!

[primrose]

Thanks so much for sharing Moonlight, v brave of you. I am going to start my step 4 in DA soon and already I am feeling overwhelmed by my financial resentments towards my mother, her control of me and also her neglect, phew.... it is going to be a tough process doing that step specifically on work and money. I find when I am in a step I re-live what I am working on, so right now I really don't want to talk to my mother in case I bite her head off about things that happened 26 years ago! I know from my step 4 in SLAA that mostly I just wanted people to be different from how they really were. I sought a sense of myself through others and blamed them when the self they offered me wasn't what I wanted. It is so easy to see the patterns when you write the same thing out over and over. Am so happy for you that you are willing to see your patterns and accept yourself, it is very inspiring! P.

[moonlight]

Thank you guys.
Am in my fearful self again, because I have to work and am procrastinating. It's not even a rational fear, it's just a big feeling of "I Don't Want To Go". My body has been stressed out since I woke up. Heart racing, tired feeling in limbs. I am now trying to observe it in order to get to know it better. It isn't really causing a problem, my first appointment today is at noon (and as long as I make my 12 hours a week I'm fine, so tomorrow will be 8 hours than). Of course there is a problem, that is that I feel so very lousy and tired and plain fearful. This is because I still project my past experiences on current people in the form of negative expectations. And they hardly ever come true. People at work treat me with respect and friendship. It's really weird. I know already that tonight I'll feel immensely relieved and will think: what was I worrying about so much?

The thing is, starting soon I'm going to work 20 hours instead of 12 hours. I hope that this will help speed up the process of exposure and overcoming fear. But it will be hard in the beginning.

[moonlight]

I've been looking up info on social phobia on the internet. There is a special 12 step group dedicated to it (of course , but it doesn't appear to have a forum. Also, I want to focus on this one forum. It will be too much otherwise. So I'd like to include my social phobia in my LA steps. They're closely related.

First step on nowadays social phobia:

I know I'm powerless over my social phobia, and that my life around my job is greatly unmanageable. I used to be phobic a lot of the time in many different situations, but now it's limited to my new job. And to flirting with guys, with at times I'm really scared of too.

Unmanageable: like today, I planned to go there early but everything inside of me is fighting against it. I REALLY don't want to go! Am SO scared! So I do manage to keep doing the job, but with lots of problems. It costs me way more hours than I get paid for. It costs me a lot of stress, which is not good for my body. It costs me life happiness. I cannot control it.

Step 2: Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

Could that be? I'll start putting my social phobia in my prayers. I'll try to stop kicking myself for it and being angry with myself for failing at willpower, instead giving it to god with all the powerlessness involved.

Step 3: Made a conscious decision to turn our lives over into the care of god, however each of us understood him.

Ok god, it's yours. Please guide me through this work, I cannot do it alone. Through these fears. I know they're not rational. Please take them away and make me a productive person so that others can benefit optimally from my work.

[sexlessw]

Moonlight:

Can you start a separate topic for your social phobia situation?

It's an interesting place to be in - IMO - cyber relations can be easier for many of us.

[moonlight]

Sexless, I'd like to start a new thread but I don't want to fill everything up with my fourth step you know? Maybe I'll ask the admin if there are plans yet to make a step section, than it will be easier.

Had chat contact with my ex today, asked him about his love life and he told me he'd started dating again. It hurts. but I feel it might be necessary for me to finally get over him.

Why does it hurt?

Because it makes me feel there's something wrong with me. Because he has rejected me. It's not about him, it's about all the men that have rejected me. If only he would fall back in love with me, than it wouldn't be because of me. It would be his mistake. I would be worthwhile. That's how I feel. So him looking for another woman is proof that I'm not worthy enough. At first he liked me, but when he discovered my true self, he rejected me.

The thing is that of course I do push men away. Because I'm very clingy and needy and express it in different ways. So it's not an illusion. Only I make two thinking errors:

1. There's something wrong with part of my behavior, not with my value;
2. I tend to choose men that don't match me.

To realize this, gives me back my power. He's not a god who can determine my worth; he's himself, a human being.

I have to do something about this transference and anger and neediness I have with men. Grrr. I guess this is step 6 till 9! One step at a time....

Love and thanks.. Moonlight

[moonlight]

In the book it was suggested to write letters to your POA (and not send them), in order to forgive him. I wrote a letter and got so angry, so sad, so upset. I cried for an hour because he let me down so much and has the power not to let me see his kids anymore.

Now I feel better. The book suggests to keep on writing the letters until you don't feel there's anything to write anymore. Am going to do that. This book is golden.

Today I visited a friend with a newborn baby. So happy for her, sad for myself that I don't have one.

[sexlessw]

Moonight:

Do what the book suggests. It is a means of getting through the pain you're in.

Also, write a letter to yourself - a kind letter - that's helpful too.

I like your realization about your xPOA - he's a man, nothing more, nothing less. He is not god-like. He does not have a magical power over you. Nor should he.

As for seeing the pal with the newborn baby - be happy for her - and for you. When you have a child, at least here in the USA, you're signing on for the next 18-25 years - and US$250,000!

[moonlight]

Hi all

I think I managed to get over my ex for now. Wrote a lot of angry and sad and clingy letters. I don't miss him anymore. Still miss his kids, but in a slightly different way (not as part of my identity, I guess the symbiosis has been lifted partially).

After my holiday, I'm going to do a fifth step. And than move on.

[g]

Hi Moonlight,
I'm over my POA too. Almost entirely. Miss his banter sometimes but price was too high.
I'm working my 4thand 5th step together. Not very orthodox the way I'm doing it but it is working for me.
Glad to see you posting again
G

[knowlove]

I had just written a ton on my first question and lost it all! UGH!!
Here we go again:
What are your resentments? Start with your childhood.

Childhood-

1) I resent my mother for her selfishness, her neglect and her total disregard for my feelings while I was growing up.
I resent having anxiety at every holiday wondering how she was going to act and when she would have her usual break down and embarrass me.

I resent the fact that everyone else cooked and she was so lazy she brought a Sara Lee Cheesecake.
I resent that she asked me to ride my bike to a gas station she had just passed on her way home to buy her cigarettes because she was too lazy to stop yet it was ok for her 12-14 yr old daughter to ride up on the highway on her bike.

I resent that at age 8 when I had a party to go to she picked out a package of tissues for a 1 dollar grab gift for me to bring. Everyone at the party made fun of me and made me take the gift. I begged her not to make me take it but she did. She was too selfish and lazy to bother to take the time to pick out something another child would like.

I resent the fact that every single Sunday morning for several years my mother would be in a horrible mood and we never knew what small thing it would be that would start her off. I resent my dad for leaving me alone with her every Sunday morning knowing how bad she was. His flea markets were more important than his daughter's welfare.

I resent the fact that I had to be in charge of waking my mother up every morning during the summer to go to work. We had to do it several times because she hated getting up.

I resent my mother for being lazy and sloppy and leaving everything for me to clean up otherwise the house would be a complete pit.
I did dishes, ironing, washing, cooking, sweeping, vacuuming, mopping, dusting.

I resent my mother for having me because it was painfully obvious we were nothing more than a hindrance and I feel she resented US.

I resent my mother for embarrassing me an infinite amount of times with her strange behavior.

I resent my dad for not sticking up more for us and making sure my mother took better care of us.
I resent my dad for his selfishness at times where I felt we should have come before other things.

Early adult years-

I resent my mother for asking me to do things when she knew I already had my hands full with my kids.

I resent my mother for manipulating me and knowing what to say to get me to do what she wanted.

I resent my mother for making horrible comments and zingers and then smiling like it wasn't anything bad (ie:you look really fat in this picture).

I resent my mother for being an extremely selfish woman and doing things only when she gets acknowledged.

I resent my mother for embarrassing me with her behavior when she gets out of control and acts like a total bitch.

I resent my mother for wanting parties for herself and having no shame in wanting attention at every opportunity.

I resent hat my mother has no problem asking to stay with me or putting me out in any way. I resent that it is still all about her.

I resent my husband for treating me with disrespect and expecting me to cater to his every need.

I resent my husband for going out every single weekend and getting drunk the first fourteen years of our marriage.

I resent my husband for not being able to stay loyal and cheating and lying about it.

I resent my husband for acting like his infidelities were no big deal but saying mine were worse.

I resent my husband for his dramas and his moods that he bestows on me at any given time.

I resent my husband for putting me in the middle whenever he is angry at the kids for something and I resent having to pay the price.

I resent my husband bitching, moaning, and whining all the time about things but never doing anything to change the situation.

I resent my husband for not being more independent and less needy.

I resent my husband for not realizing he is putting his needs above mine many times without thinking of what my needs might be or what my stress level is. I resent him for putting himself first.



How do your resentments affect you today?

I still carry many of these resentments even though I do not show it outwardly. I find it very difficult at times to let go of them. Some of these things are still going on so it is hard to let go when they are repeating themselves. I do not show resentment nor discuss it so the other person is not aware of my feelings. Although I have worked through much of my anger towards my mom, the fact that she continues to do things hinders my progress although I continue to pray and work on it.

[serenity]

"I know from my step 4 in SLAA that mostly I just wanted people to be different from how they really were. I sought a sense of myself through others and blamed them when the self they offered me wasn't what I wanted". I was meant to find this today Prim, thank you!

This is exactly what i am struggling with at the moment with my mum, best friend, work colluegues, the general public, and mostly about MYSELF. I am having a hard time in step 6 and my sponsor also had a very hard time in hers so i was expecting it and i know its part of my journey that i need and i need to ask God for the strength to face myself.