|
Post by g on Jun 27, 2010 8:28:06 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing Sexless and reminding me how hellish withdrawals are. I needed to hear that right now because I've been very on edge all morning and memories of the good things my poa said and did have been tormenting me. Sheer madness to even think about breaking NC G
|
|
|
Post by sexlessw on Jun 27, 2010 18:43:30 GMT -5
Greta:
Beware, especially from OUR perspective today - I read your post about wanting to send him a FOAD email - about the "Good" things they "said" to us. Saying IS NOT DOING. "Was going to" isn't HAVING DONE.
DO NOT BREAK NC. Take it from the HardCore NC specialist - DO NOT DO IT.
Because I am alone this weekend, in a state of withdrawal - I did screw up. NO I DID NOT CONTACT ASPEN. I did a drive-by of his parents house and his car was parked outside.
Then I did something really outrageous. I went to visit AspieBoi. Showed up. He was outside with his dog. He said to me, "Do me a favor. Leave." Wow. I really screwed up - went for MORE from the AspieBoi and he gave it to me! So I left. Stunned. [AspieBoi - now that's the tale and a half]
Now I have to see him at work - the worst part being - I have to work with him four weekend days in July. Pray to GOD he calls in sick - and PRAY TO GOD he doesn't go running to the administration saying I was harassing and stalking him. Watch out for those Aspies!
Strongly considering getting my transfer in across the River in late August. GET ME OUTTA THERE.
Today is the sort of day where I lose my cred on the board.
|
|
|
Post by iwillsurvive on Jun 28, 2010 0:46:56 GMT -5
Sexlessw: I can't write much because I'm on my blackberry but I wanted to tell you that you haven't lost credibility as far as I'm concerned. I'm just sorry that you exposed yourself to more pain. I've done that too. We can all relate. Its why we are here. Sending a virtual hug to you. And yes I met other maidens who were taken down by my exh/POA. One was the gf before me. She was suicidal when he dumped her although he told me she was just a friend. Right.
|
|
|
Post by g on Jun 28, 2010 0:56:38 GMT -5
No cred lost sexless. Its important for us all to be open and honest here. Pretending recovery is easy would be wrong and unfair to those who are struggling and are in the early stages. There are good days and bad and sometimes we're tempted to medicate the pain in some other way such as looking for validation elsewhere. Glad you are all here and that we can remind each other that we can pick ourselves up and start over. G
|
|
|
Post by moonlight on Jun 28, 2010 3:53:36 GMT -5
Yes, we can always start again friends! I did some cyberstalking almost two weeks ago, still recovering from it. But it's getting better, tonight for the first time I didn't dream of my ex and his children and ex-wife. Small progress..
love Moonlight
|
|
|
Post by sexlessw on Jun 28, 2010 6:54:16 GMT -5
Folks:
Thanks for understanding my position - wacked out as it was. I feel better being OUT AND PROUD honest instead of NOT being honest. Now that WOULD be a serious lack of credibility on my part. And I don't like being viewed as somebody who is not forthcoming and honest. Especially one who walks the walk and talks the talk about NC.
There is a certain sense of levity for me today - at least over AspieBoi. I'm totally free of him! I see him clearly for what he is! After ten years! He did ME A FAVOR - he honestly did.
FWIW I have decided NOT to send Aspen the FOAD letter. I'm not ready yet. I'm not angry enough yet. I'm still holding on to a remnant of H-O-P-E - but HOPE for what? Hope for me to continue NC and freedom from my obsession over him.
IWillSurvive: The GF before you - wow. I totally believe she was suicidal. How did you feel when she told you that? Did you "see" your xH/POA in a different light? Or did you receive confirmation as to what he was? I ask b/c the information I received on Aspen was similar to that - but not ladies feeling suicidal. Then again - I don't know for certain.
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Jun 28, 2010 22:55:31 GMT -5
That's just what I was going to point out sexless. Cred comes from being honest with yourself and others, not from doing recovery perfectly (as if such a thing were even possible.)
Glad you're feeling clarity about AspieBoi. I know exactly what you mean about considering what he did to be a favor. I feel the same way about my stbx's behavior.
|
|
|
Post by g on Jun 29, 2010 7:06:51 GMT -5
If I hadn't looked at my poa's FB, I wouldn't have seen he was back in contact with my 'rival'. It was very painful to see that but it made me see that he will never change and just wants a supply for his narcissism. I cut off my supply and he turned to someone else. The woman before me was discarded shortly before he hooked me. Hurt like hell but I'm thankful now I saw that he is contact with new person. I'm nothing to him and I have to accept that. Humbled yet again. Mortified even but I needed to see it and to push him off the pedestal I had put him on and which he never deserved. G
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Jun 29, 2010 10:31:59 GMT -5
Greta, your last post made me think about when I met my stbx. On our first few dates he was always having to leave the room to return phone calls to his ex gf. I didn't think much about it at the time because he was crazy, madly in love with me (no need for me to be jealous) and I thought she was an old ex who just couldn't let go. Later I realized he had only broken up with her and moved out weeks before he met me. And he met me through a dating service which means he had to have been looking for someone new before he even left ex gf. Fast-forward to present day—he was on Match looking for new people to date while we were still living together and supposedly trying to work things out. Hmmm. I'm sensing a pattern here.
It's so strange to think of that ex gf now and realize he had undoubtedly done exactly the same cycle of seductive pursuit and then avoidant withdrawal with her and then used me for his new fix. I had no idea he was using me in that way or even that he had just left a relationship (they actually also owned a house together so it wasn't any short-term simple thing between them.) And now some woman out there is being wooed by him (I know this not through cyberstalking, but because I KNOW him so well—he literally can't survive without 24/7 attention from a woman) and is doomed to live through the same cycle as all of those who have gone before.
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Jun 29, 2010 12:02:49 GMT -5
Sexless, have been in the country so am getting to your posts late. Am sorry you had that blip with the aspie boy, but it makes sense in a way. if the Aspen pain is so terrible it might make you act out on old POAs. I was very tempted in withdrawal to call some people I knew who just adored me, just to get some relief. My sponsor told me I couldn't and that annoyed me. Am sure you're right and Aspie boy did you a favour.
You are so right that people who haven't had a POA or pretend they haven't had a POA don't get it at all. Those who have never experienced it don't know how to help, and other LAs in denial can be positively dangerous. I learnt that in AlAnon. Folk there used to be VERY careful who they spoke to about the alcoholic in their lives. Lots of people married to alcoholics in total denial who said helpful things like "well my husband likes to drink too, but I control him much better than you control yours". And people in active LA who aren't ready to give a POA up can be very invested in getting others to carry on game playing. It's like the binge eater feeling better when a friend eats a pint of ice-cream after dinner. I think your mother's advice is guff, and I don't know her at all, but it smacks of one-upmanship to me, like "well in that situation I would play it and play it to win, clearly you can't" Which is NOT what you need when you're doing all you can to cope with NC and stop playing the games.
Think you're right to stay well well away from people saying stuff like that. None of my friends who aren't recovering LAs know much if any about my withdrawal, they just can't understand. Best. P.
|
|
|
Post by trout46 on Jun 29, 2010 13:26:25 GMT -5
Sexless:
I apologize that my travels have kept me away from the board, and I haven't contributed much to this (or any other) discussion recently.
Your honesty gives you much more than credibility (although it definitely gives you that!). Being honest--honest with yourself, then with others--is the #1 precondition for recovery (and making it through withdrawal). The AA gurus who developed the 12 steps recognized this principle. It is the basis of the work 12-steppers do in the 4th and 5th steps; and its central role in the recovery process is acknowledged in every AA meeting when members are reminded that the foundational requirement for recovery is "the capacity to be honest." You have been totally honest in dealing, expressing, and sharing with the fellowship your situation with Aspen.
You were one of a few recovery LAs who really taught me the importance and significance of N/C. As clear as we can be about its value and necessity, who among us does not suffer such obsessive pain, anguish, and confusion that we are not compelled to break it in an effort to capture some elusive crumb of recognition from our POAs? I understand this so well. I know that we probably all know it well.
That said, Aspen did do you a favor when you decided to drive by his parents' place. Anything more would have resulted in greater damage, and more significant pain. I went through a period not long ago when I felt I couldn't hold back; that I HAD to make contact with my POA. Lucky for me, someone had posted about their experience in breaking N/C just before I had the opportunity to do the same. Their story was one of pain and heightened obsessions. It was enough to keep me on the wagon, and for that, I am truly grateful. (My experience has been that the fellowship is often incredibly valuable and effective in helping me to learn--vicariously--what the results of my actions are likely to result in.)
Aspen has become toxic for you. Probably has been for some time. This isn't a situation (nor is mine) that calls for "closure," "last goodbyes," or anything else. I'm confident you will know if and when the time is right to send the FOAD letter.
Stay strong!
|
|
|
Post by sexlessw on Jun 29, 2010 16:18:46 GMT -5
PrimRose:
Nailed the slip with AspieBoi. Right on the mark. "If the Aspen pain is so terrible it might make you act out on old POAs. I was very tempted in withdrawal to call some people I knew who just adored me, just to get some relief." Your sponsor was right too - and that is why she is a sponsor - no time to lie, no time to b.s.
You definately understand what I'm talking about: "You are so right that people who haven't had a POA or pretend they haven't had a POA don't get it at all. Those who have never experienced it don't know how to help, and other LAs in denial can be positively dangerous."
I had to shake my head when I read you describe the "exucses" the AlAnon folks gave for their loved ones drinking. It's not funny, but tragic.
Yeah - my mother's advice WAS Guff at that time. She did say one thing tho right before the "stay and show him" comment. It was probably the kindest thing she ever said to me. "What in the h*ll is the matter with these men? You are beautiful, kind, have a knock-out body, there's something wrong with them. You're TERRIFIC." She never mentioned it again and not once asked me how I was doing and how I was faring with NC/withdrawals.
I got through then and I'll get through now. I don't tell anybody IRL about these withdrawals - for if people knew I'd reconnected with Aspen, they'd be either laughing or going "That's just Aspen for you - the ladies can't resist him."
|
|
|
Post by sexlessw on Jun 29, 2010 16:27:37 GMT -5
Trout: I PMed you too -
Thank you and the other posters regarding my "credibilty" guilt fest. Just wanted to be honest, and you guys saw that - thank you all! If I can get out of Aspen for good a second time, the least I can do is be honest about the process.
This is true: "You were one of a few recovery LAs who really taught me the importance and significance of N/C. As clear as we can be about its value and necessity, who among us does not suffer such obsessive pain, anguish, and confusion that we are not compelled to break it in an effort to capture some elusive crumb of recognition from our POAs? I understand this so well. I know that we probably all know it well."
I want to break into a Proust quote here - "How have we the heart to go on living, how can we move a finger to preserve ourselves from death in a world where love is provoked only by lies, and consists soley in our need to see our suffering appeased by the person who has made us suffer." I [heart] Marcel Proust. The best stuff I've ever read in literature about love, pain and healing from obsessive love.
Oh boy, don't I know the PULL of ONE PIECE OF CONTACT. ONE LAST PIECE OF CONTACT. ONE MORE CONVO, ONE MORE LOOK ON THE INTERNET, ONE MORE fix of their voice. If I contact them I will be okay! It's going to be different this time! But it's not. It's the same only you feel sadder.
You wrote: "I went through a period not long ago when I felt I couldn't hold back; that I HAD to make contact with my POA. Lucky for me, someone had posted about their experience in breaking N/C just before I had the opportunity to do the same. Their story was one of pain and heightened obsessions. It was enough to keep me on the wagon, and for that, I am truly grateful."
Frig closure and goodbyes with respect to Aspen and your POA. The only "closure" we get is the closure we give ourselves. Their actions have already shown us who they are - only when we fully translate those actions do we finally understand and find our answers.
The FOAD letter - that won't be this week or next - maybe never. But, but, the summer's not over yet. All in MY CONTROL.
Thanks all for being here for me this weekend/week.
|
|
|
Post by iwillsurvive on Jun 29, 2010 19:46:21 GMT -5
sexlessw -- I chose to "overlook" the suicidal ex and that's a pattern I don't want to repeat. I have chosen to overlook a lot of things because my adult self gets it (most of the time), but the little girl/addict has another agenda. I really need to lose the ego that prompts me to believe I'm a special case or the low self-esteem that makes me want to believe I'm a special case. I thought the ex-gf was just a little cuckoo and did not believe my ex-h had anything to do with her behavior. That was 25 years and several other POAs ago.
This LRA is so twisted. I went to counseling today and discussed how I have been attracted to emotionally unavailable men partly because I like challenges. In my professional life as a journalist, the tendency to want to jump barriers served me well. Not so much in my private life. Also, I have liked EUMs because they were unavailable and part of me is so afraid of intimacy. Of course, once I'm with a EUM I eventually don't want him because of the abandonment and pain and anger that is triggered. Or, I am drawn to the EUM because of the abandonment and pain. So self-defeating. I asked my counselor if one of the reasons I kept repeating this pattern was that I could feel the hurt and anger that I had toward my dad -- feelings I had repressed. Think I'll ask my HP about that.
Sorry for getting diverted to my issues. I am grateful that you are being honest about yours sexlessw. Even though I'm not married right now and never had an EMA, I can relate to a lot of what you're going through.
Since I am a journalist, I tend to ask questions. Hope that's OK. I'm wondering why you call your POA "Aspen" instead of POA. Hope you're doing well today.
IWS
|
|
|
Post by sexlessw on Jul 1, 2010 16:29:33 GMT -5
IWillSurvive:
Thank you for sharing. The things we overlook when we think we can "fix" somebody! Fixing somebody tends to be a female attribute. If we fix them, bygolly, that'll be good for us, and they'll be evrything we want them to be. It's rather self defeating thinking if you pause.
I need to ask - what is the EUM? What does it stand for?
Perhaps all you know in a relationship with a man is pain - that's what you're familiar with, that's what you chase after, and that's what you're left with. Because, obviously, you had no other way of relating. And that's where all the work you're doing comes in.
Why do I call him Aspen - his last name reminds me of a defunct paper company and I somehow came up with "Aspen" for him. Why not POA? Well, I tend to give people names - because they mean something to me at some time. [FWIW I'm the one that coined the acronym "POA" on the first board - no lie]
|
|