God has not abandoned you

[Rilly]

This is one of my favorite choral pieces. It is part of Bach's Cantata 21. It is a message of hope. Be at peace again, my soul, for the Lord has done good things for you. He has not abandoned you.

The recording starts with soloists and the tenors coming in now and then singing the Chorale melody with text in long notes.. Half way through, the soloists stop and the full chorus sings, with the Chorale melody, and its message, being continued by the sopranos.

Music link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5w-WsT_Y7c&feature=related

Here is the German text followed by an English translation.

9. Chor - Choral T S
Sei nun wieder zufrieden, meine Seele, denn der Herr tut dir Guts. (Psalm 116:7)

Was helfen uns die schweren Sorgen,
Was hilft uns unser Weh und Ach?
Was hilft es, daß wir alle Morgen
Beseufzen unser Ungemach?
Wir machen unser Kreuz und Leid
Nur größer durch die Traurigkeit.

Denk nicht in deiner Drangsalshitze,
Daß du von Gott verlassen seist,
Und daß Gott der im Schoße sitze,
Der sich mit stetem Glücke speist.
Die folgend Zeit verändert viel
Und setzet jeglichem sein Ziel.
("Wer nur den lieben Gott läßt walten," verse 5) 9. Chorus - Chorale T S

Be at peace again, my soul, for the Lord has done good things for you.

What good are heavy worries?
What can our woe and sighing do?
What help is it, that every morning
we bemoan our hard lot?
We make our torment and sorrow
only greater through melancholy.

Think not, in your heat of despair,
that you are abandoned by God,
and that God places in His lap
the one who feeds on constant happiness.
The coming time changes much
and sets a destiny for each.


I hope it brings some peace to your soul like it has mine.


Rilly

[serenity]

Ahh yes it did, thank you rilly!

[primrose]

Hmm, I think I'll have to stay away from the mention of God on the site for a while. I am being very triggered by it at the moment. God has not abandoned you... That makes me furious right now. I think I am so close to my feelings of dying in the birth canal and there being nothing, no mother to help me, nothing (and for me my feelings about God are all about my mother not being there for me) that the idea of being protected just enrages me as I wasn't protected. I just died and nothing worked. There was no other place, no happiness, nothing. I just died. I was finished and that was all there was. My therapist suggested to me that I was cared for and I was brought round, and that in hospitals it is very important to the staff that they help babies breathe again. I was cared for then. That makes me cry writing that. I was cared for. I was brought back to life. I mattered. In my baby brain all I can feel is that I was alone and it was terrible and I died, so the idea of a protective force in the world enrages me and feels wrong on a cellular level. Perhaps that will change, but personalising God makes me want to spit bile today. This periodically happens to me. In the early days of SLAA I used to feel furious in meetings hearing people talk about a protective God, it made me want to throw chairs around and scream that they were idiots and there was nothing and that each person is totally alone in the world. That is how I feel and it seems insane that other people should delude themselves that there's anything out there that cares at all. But I know that dying isnt everyone's experience and not everyone is cut off from God. Perhaps it will change in time. P.

[quinn]

Prim, your story of being strangled in the birth canal—feeling pulled to move forward but each time you do knowing it is going to kill you—is so profound. I can absolutely see how this would impact everything you do in life. It's so great that you are conscious of this though and so are in a position to see clearly how this experience impacted you. I think often about all the things that must have happened when we were infants, or even in-utero that we don't remember and so can never work on changing.

I also understand how you would be furious at the idea of a protective God. Your experience was that you were alone and there was no God, no help of any kind and you were just going to die. I like what your therapist pointed out though. You didn't die because there was help. A whole hospital room full of people were working desperately to save you. They wanted you to live. Your life and helping you breath again were most likely the most important thing in the whole world to the people in your hospital room in that moment. So even if you are angry at God or don't believe God is real, or cares, at least you can know that a bunch of people who hadn't even met you yet were completely committed to saving you.

((((((Big Hug))))))

[Rilly]

Primrose,

I am a little surprised at how you missed the point.

I'm sorry about your experience, and the way you are triggered. But my post really had nothing to do with your comment. Except... maybe that your knowledge of your experience is a hard lot. The message is to trade in the anger for peace.

The message is not about guaranteed protection. It doesn't say that we receive a bullet proof vest protecting us from all trials and adversity in this life. We each have our own path. It is about hope. Just as we turn to our HP when we do the Steps. It is a message of faith and forgiveness. It is telling us that our HP is there for all of us, not just those who are perfect and sitting in the lap of happiness. The HP has been known to help people who have hit rock bottom. Isn't that what the steps are about?

(You didn't mention if you even listened to the music. I think it is one of Bach's greatest choruses, even without the meaningful text. And there are some very good singers.) It is about gratitude and appreciation for the gift of music.

When we do the Steps we put our trust in God (or Higher Power). That gives us the power to make good things happen in our recovery.

Primrose, understanding a message is not necessarily meaning that one accepts or believes it. First, strive for understanding.


Rilly

[primrose]

Thanks for the hug Quinn, v much appreciated! I see more and more how this has coloured my life and split me from my spiritual self. I hope as I heal that that will heal. I really appreciate you seeing where I'm coming from actually. I don't often speak about my birth trauma outside of my discussions with people who've done Primal, because it can seem very bizarre. It's really present for me now so I have to write about it, but I know how off the wall it can seem!

I didn't miss your point Rilly, actually I think your post was very beautiful and heartfelt. My anger at the idea of God is my own. Being triggered for me is all fruit for growth, as I aim to find my spiritual self in recovery. I can't embrace God now but I hope that I will in time. P.

[CJ]

Riley - That is a lovely and hopeful passage. I will pass on the music until I have had a cup of coffee.

It, however, misses the mark with me. I gave many years of my life in service of God and the Catholic faith. I spent a year in the seminary. When I needed him most sixteen years ago, however, God was on holiday or something. That is a betrayal I will never forgive. I found and continue to find myself asking that uniquely American question: "So, what have you done for me lately?"

Sometimes when I focus on recovery I feel drawn back to God and my religion somewhat and it feels nice, but it is little more than nostalgia for me. So, for the purpose of recovery I have joined the "make a Frisbee your HP" crowd. It seems to work fairly well for me to just try to hand things off without thinking very hard about where they are going. After all, George Carlin said "I am a Frisbeetarian, when I die my soul will get stuck on the roof."

[g]

I think you can make your HP whatever works for you.

I'm a Catholic and have continued to practice my faith all my life (except when I had decided to live my life to the full during my EMA and turned my back on God to allow me not to listen to my conscience).

'Practice' is exactly what I mean. I practice believing in God. I don't question whether He really is there or not. I just can't get my head round it. God stopped me going mad when my brother died. God stopped me going mad when I had to get my POA out of my life.

He's there for me now. And I feel safe with Him.

Sitting on a fluffy cloud and watching over me as I go thru the tests of life. I like to believe that's God anyway, and so does my little girl.

And my fatherly God is a lot cuter and cuddlier than a plastic frisbee.

Our HP is who or whatever we want it to be. As long as HP is there and works, why define it?

[quinn]

CJ, you made a frisbee your HP! That's very funny! I like the image a lot—the frisbee just takes all your problems and flies off into the woods or over the fence never to see be seen again.

Your experience of most of your life with God in the Catholic church reminds me of so many people I know who have abandoned Christianity for something else, anything else—Judaism, Sufism, Buddhism, Wiccan. This makes a lot of sense to me because of how familiarity can sometimes drain all the meaning out of a thing. Instead of time in one religious tradition bringing more depth and faith, it can end up feeling empty. I know it's not like that for everyone of course (and I'm not meaning anything negative about anyone's religious beliefs) but I understand well how that happens.

It sounds like for you it was more about feeling God's absence in your time of greatest need, which I also understand. I recently read Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle, which I'm sure as a former Catholic you are familiar with. She talks a lot (as does St. John of the Cross) about the time in one's spiritual life when it feels like God has left you and what that is about—from her point of view.

I have been a Buddhist for many years, but in the last year or so have begun to think of myself as inter-spiritual, in that all religions point to the same place and labeling myself as any one particular thing just gets in the way. Because of this I have been reading much more widely in literature from all the different traditions (I have become quite fond of the Christian mystics) and this has confirmed for me that religion is an idea, and therefore easily lost, but spiritual experiences, once had, tend to be lasting and transformative.

I hope this post isn't going to antagonize anyone. I know religious topics can make people upset sometimes, but I feel like it's such an important conversation because so many of us do struggle with HP—what that is, what it means, how to incorporate it (or not) into our recovery.

[Rilly]

We believe what we want to believe. That is why faith always starts with a sincere desire to believe. Without that desire, we are merely going through the motions. And guilt arises when we violate the laws our chosen belief structure is based on. Sometimes people will choose to completely abandon or modify their belief structure. But that is their choice.

However, some choices won't work if they are at odds with natural laws. You can choose to believe that gravity doesn't exist, but in this sphere it will be inconsistent with natural law. I believe God is consistent with all truth. It is that truth of things as they are, as they were, and as they always will be that we must seek. Truth is light. Lets strive to be enlightened.

The application of humility, gratitude, forgiveness, etc. although usually placed in a religious context, are concepts that in practice can benefit us regardless of whether we believe in God or not. For example, we can choose to not be forgiving, but we pay the price because the stress of anger and resentment has a negative effect on our physical bodies.

As far as the frisbee is concerned, I'll have to side with Moses on that one. I'm not ready to accept the idea of worshipping the golden calf. But that is because it violates the laws of my belief structure. You know, the one about idolatry?

Although it would be entertaining to see the Frisbee Ten Commandments...lol

[iwillsurvive]

Prim, I'm glad you are able to feel your feelings of fury regarding God. I think intense feelings like that lead us to where we need to go in recovery. You clearly FELT abandoned during birth and it must have been terrifying. You were obviously meant to live. Is it possible that a higher power placed those nurses and doctors there with you to make sure you survived? I can see it as a message that even if your parents abandoned you, your higher power would bring other people to take care of you. Most nurses -- but not all -- are angels in my view. They provide care and love and nurturing when they are at their best. One of the most healing aspects of my extended treatment for ovarian cancer was the care (physical, emotional and spiritual) of the nurses on the oncology floor. They were like substitute mommies and my mom had just died at the time so I didn't have a mom in real life. Your mom seems to have been unequipped for taking care of you and so you needed other "angels" to fill in the blanks.

When in cancer treatment and nearing death with kidney failure and sepsis, I wondered if God "forgot" about me. The thing is, when I looked back at it (as in other aspects of my life), I could see his work in it and through it. Once a friend asked me, "Are you going to let this make you bitter or better?" That can apply to any challenge in life. I had seen bitter at work in my family and knew it was destruction so I have chosen "better" as my path. You're doing that too in your recovery.

Really appreciate your openness and wisdom, prim. Rilly, thanks for posting this song and for everyone else who responded openly about their challenges with a higher power. It is this type of honesty and openness that leads to healing. I respect that we all have the freedom to choose our own higher power. The God "of my understanding" also respects our right to choose what or whom to worship. In my case, I have to stop abandoning God for POAs. I feel God's grace and forgiveness for all the ways I've wandered in the desert and his loving embrace as I return to him.

[primrose]

Iwillsurvive, I think that's wonderful that you had such incredible care when you had cancer. I've seen that with my husband and my friend who died. The hospital support was incredible. It's made me want to give what I can to cancer trusts.

I can't see god in what happened to me, but I do see healing in everything that has happened. I see that my mind has an incredible ability to make sense of tragedy, and make tragedy personally meaningful. And perhaps that's more or less the same thing as believing in god? To find hope in whatever happens and to trust that I will be okay. And I have no control over that feeling of hope or acceptance, it feels instinctual, so maybe other people would say that that feeling came from god? I'd say, if I analysed it, that hope and trust helps keep a species alive so it's important to have it and that has nothing to do with their being a deity in the world. But really, I don't think it matters at all how I or anyone else analyses hope and trust. They exist and they help, and I'm grateful I can feel them P.

[g]

IWS , I think its wonderful you had such great care too. I have some real horror stories about hospitals in this country but when my h was diagnosed with cancer call it what you like but God lead us thru a series of coincidences to a wonderful university hospital just 2 hrs away.
The staff were so attentive, the consultants 'saintly', no money asked for under the table as would normally happen here but an example of medical excellence and integrity.
I thank God for giving such people a vocation to join the medical profession. But we all believe what we want and that is a Godgiven gift for me too.
G

[iwillsurvive]

Prim, what I love about 12 step recovery is that we respect each other's belief systems. I certainly respect that you don't see god in your birth experience. I see the principles of faith in the way you relate to others and in your story, but understand that we all have different perspectives on what the events in our life mean. I'm so glad you have the hope that everything will be okay. That is so comforting, isn't it?

I feel an innate desire to worship and I don't want to worship myself (as in narcissism) or POAs (as in love addiction). When I worship God (as I understand him), I feel centered and peaceful and less into self and other objects of addiction. That is what works for me.

Greta, I'm glad your husband received such good care as well. I too am grateful for those who work in the healing professions. They often are faced with very emotionally charged situations and yet they sacrifice their own comfort to help others. I agree that it is good that we are free to believe as we choose. Love requires freedom to choose and cannot be forced. I'm grateful for that too. I guess that's what we are doing here: losing our compulsion to "love" and gaining freedom to really love and be loved. This is a very powerful process and I'm so glad that you and others decided to give of yourself to make it happen.

[primrose]

IWS, that is exactly how I feel! I have an innate desire to worship. I now respect that need very much even though I'm an atheist, weird eh? I wrote about understanding that fully for the first time in my step 10. My step 10 gave me so much clarity about my need to worship, and I made peace with it as a need. I love that in 12 step there is the space to respect and give space to other views. A big part of my recovery has been about accepting that everyone is right; right for them. I don't have a lot invested in being right in the way that I used to. I can still get cranky about my opinion being the only one worth having (typical narc ) but really I am much more accepting of others now. If they don't think the way I do, it's really okay. For someone like me from a family where you could argue for 5 hours about whether the 19th century was a waste of time (my family have an irrational hatred of the 19th century, and if you asked them why, you'd get a 5 hour explanation, so it's just not worth asking) well, it's miraculous really that I don't whack people over the head who don't agree with me! Recovery has given me lots of gifts. Maybe in time it will give me faith. I'd like that. P.