Converting POAs

[primrose]

What I like in meetings is that generally people are mindful of the differences between their beliefs. When I first started my withdrawal I wasn't mindful at all and I sneered my way through plenty of meetings, and said how much I despised the idea of god. That's where I was then, I'm not there now, I don't think like that. The steps really helped me come to terms with my own spiritual nature. My atheism was accepted in 12 step, no-one threw me out because of my lack of belief, and now I want to extend that loving tolerance to others and accept them with their beliefs. I was held kindly in recovery by people with far more awareness than I had. And that acceptance helped me accept myself. Really, I have no interest in the mechanics of anyone else's religious or spiritual beliefs. If someone finds peace through their belief in God, then I respect that, and I trust it, and actually, I often love to listen to their faith. I find that deeply moving as I connect to the feeling and wisdom. I see faith in action and I don't have to agree with the kind of God others believe in, actually, I think it isn't my business. For me, belief is often private. And of course, this is a 12 step site for recovering love addicts rather than a site where the nature of belief is up for debate. P.

[rickfaith]

Chriistianity seems to have several messages... within itself...thats why i dont go there. 12 step programs are not religious...it is spirituality.... there is an old saying religion is for those afraid to go to hell, spirituality is for those who already been there.. thats a mantra for me.

God of MY understanding...MINE...not one forced down my throat by some preacher or whomever. God I have is a loving and forgiving God who wont fry me for eternity after telling me he loves me...that would be like ... sickness with poa! Love and hate!...

I know God will not fry me for eternity cause i swore, or didnt do what 200 different religions told me to do. God knows my heart of hearts...thats all that matters pour moi. It took me a lot to get there... the steps say it well...so do the traditions...there is one ultimate authority...a LOVING GOD as he may express ghimself in our group conscience. God as I understand God... that beautiful,...it takes pressure off of people, allows them the freedom of choice and not the bondage of someone elses definition... God took care of me whan i was drunk an d stoned and bumming change on corners long ago...and i went the church route...didnt work for me...went to 12 step groups and felt at home... its all up to each his/her own. Mine is forgiving, loving, all kind and powerful...and i dont need religion to reach Him or he me. Thats mine...now someone elses probably be different...but thats mine and i rspect others too, but I wont back down on my beliefs cause it just took too much pain and loss and work to get what i have. Not sleeping in the snowm today, bumming quarters, beating people up or vice versa...not afraid to walk in daylight down my home town streets..not ashamed and wont let anyone shame me either. I chose this life...but God gave that to me when i was ripe enough to fall outta the tree. Growth startts when b,laming and self centeredness are stopped or arrested...inventoried. This is an inventory program too...not just talk and type...there is a format to write it all down ,like aa bb says. "I am angry at Mr Brown...because he...paid attention to my wife..." etc. It works if you work it!

Love to all. Grateful to be sobre, and in recovery, and facing my core issues of LA and child abuse past...grieving the hurts, getting well. love you all.

[walkingonwater]

Sorry but I don't think I could be on the board if I'm not allowed to talk about my Higher Power! Why should people who talk about a general HP be allowed while those who follow a religion not be? I also suspect that there wouldn't be this feeling about some of the more fashionable religions, e.g. Buddhism. Sorry but that's how I feel.

[primrose]

Walkingonwater, I personally don't have a problem with people of any creed coming to the board. Whatever a person's HP is, if that HP is a source of guidance and healing in their life, it's fine with me. I'm pretty sure most people in recovery, if not all, feel the same way. I don't think anyone here has said people mustn't talk about their faith. I think it's good to be mindful of not upsetting others when talking about faith, but also it's important to express ones own deeply felt beliefs and feel safe doing so. Perhaps sometimes it can't be that it's done perfectly on a board where people believe very different things, but I hope that we can do our best and be kind to each other in our differences. You and I believe very different things that's true, but I don't have a problem knowing you are a committed Christian, and I doubt very much that it bothers you that I'm an atheist. I hope that that holds true on the board as it has done in life and we can all accept each others differences and heal together. Very best. P.

[rickfaith]

this is not a religous program...church is there for that...this is a place for laras to share their issues re love and relationships...a loving god and spirituality is welcome to be discussed...but i dont care to hear about how i gotta get 'saved', or be a buddhsit m onk either...so far that hasnt happened and thats why i keep coming back. Take what ui liked and leave the rest is the best thing for me to do. Each is on their own personal journey...we cant all be on identitcal path...even tho relgiion wants us to be all the same... i cant be you and you cant be me. if i get angry about that then i am no christian cause if i ama christian...dont i have to forgive? :0 Just a thought...but thats what religion teaches...forgiveness and not be angry all the time if someone dont practice what i practice,...or worhsuip how i THINK they shopuld.

Blah on religion. Yay on spirituality and God of MY own undertstanding as steps say. If i want religion i go to mosque, church, etc...if i want spiritual healing and understandking i come here for my friends here understand me in ways a ;paster or cleric could never understand me. You guys been there...and for that i am grateful cause ylou relate to me and me to you. Love yiou all no matter what you believe in or dont believe in...love you anhyway....your my lifeline.

hugs

[walkingonwater]

Hi Prim,

I was responding to Greta's post which suggested that we shouldn't discuss religion... I'd have difficulty with that cos my religion is so relevant to my recovery etc... we wouldn't say you can't talk about athiesm so why religion...

I agree with most of what's been said re discussion and accepting others etc. People can define their own God. Personally I've found in the past that when i did that, I designed a God that let me do exactly what I wanted to do. I guess we're conforming to some sense of an HP if we do steps 2 and 3 as they suggest a God that is loving (to all), that has boundaries that may be different to ours and can be trusted. What are the boundaries though? Is if for us to decide or is it for God's will to be done? If you get what I mean.

Reading the AA big book suggests that the reason they said a God of our own understanding is to avoid arguing about it... in those days nearly all the HPs were religious! Jewish, Catholic, Baptist etc... I think we can avoid arguing as long as we tolerate and accept other people's views. It gets difficult though where you give advice on the subject (whether religious, spiritual or athiest) cos your own views are bound to come through.

Much love to you all, whatever you believe!!

[rickfaith]

steps cover that anyway... God of OUR own understanding, as we understand God. Thats all is needed... prett simple really. its in the steps in this 12 step group and all 12 step groups which is what we joined here.