Problem with the 1st step

[g]

Phoenix, you are more than welcome here!
We are working on guidelines regarding the steps but noone is obliged to do them. We recommend working the steps but all we ask for on this board is a sincere committment to recovery.
Will get back to you on this asap
G

[kelleyboy]

Hey Phoenix,
I support you in your journey, and the courage to question what recovery means to you. The only requirement in any 12 step fellowship is a desire to stop acting out on whatever behavior we find is harming us. No one here has the right to give you advice or decide whether you belong here or not. Only you have that right. I admire your courage.

KB

[primrose]

Hi! Everyone's take on the steps is personal. I was in 12 step in my 20s and left because of the same feeling you have now. I could not and would not submit, and that was right for me for a long time. I feel differently now, for me I've realised that it is not a submission in a negative sense at all, it is just a relinquishment of my addictive will to harm myself and an acceptance of a healthier way to live with myself. But I really understand where you're coming from. I absolutely did not agree with step one for many years. This is a 12 step board but it's not essential that you do the steps. Even in HOW meetings where the steps are a necessity, people who aren't doing the steps can go to meetings and speak if there is time. P.

[serenity]

Hi Pheonix,

I'm glad you've started this very imp subject on not becoming enmeshed with other even a recovery group. I had a rather disturbing phone call last night to a good friend in slaa who shared with me about another person in slaa becoming very controlling of her recovery process to the point where she felt she couldn't have her own opinion without being shamed for it which really upset me.

Like you so rightly say we got into recovery because of our enmeshment issues with others and i have to remember to keep my invisible but very real bubble around me and stay close to my higher power because we can so easily make others our higher power like my friend did with her sponsor.

I'm about to take my step 6 and i'm comfortable with where i'm at with my realtionship with God, its about MY relationship and i know to go within for my answers about things and not to look to others to tell me who i am. This is such an empowering feeling and that is what recovery is about empowering ourselves through our own understanding of our higher power.

Blessings and joy to you, Vee

[g]

Phoenix, as many of us have already said everybody is welcome here but this IS a 12 and 12 board.

I'm very emotional as I write as I've been catapulted back to when my back was up against the wall and I was offered a choice on another board. Either to accept the new rules or find somewhere else that respected 12 and 12.
It was thanks to hard core 12 steppers that I had the guts to start up this board overnight.
Please understand that we are together thanks to the 12 steps and to our HP.

Take what you need, leave the rest but we are a little baby board that needs to concentrate on our basic needs.
As already mentioned, you don't need to do the steps but please respect how much they mean to the rest of us.
With love
G

[quinn]

I know exactly what you mean about the 1st step Phoenix. I have never been able to incorporate it in my own life in the way it seems to be written so I sort of translate it into terms that work for me. And I think it's okay to do that—that is sort of the essence of "take what works and leave the rest." Also, words like: dependent, God, power, defects, shortcomings, are subjective. No two people are going to see them or feel them exactly the same way and so there are going to be negative or positive associations by different people to almost every word in the 12 steps.

I think of the first step more like—I admit I have been powerless over love and relationships and my life has become unmanageable as I am currently living it. With the help of friends in recovery and my HP I can live differently.

This sort of combines, for me, the idea that life in general (not just addiction) is unnecessarily painful and difficult when I try to do it without friends, support, and HP. It is not a dependency in the negative sense of the word (codependency, enmeshment), but a recognition that life is not meant to be lived in an isolated, I-can-do-it-all-myself kind of way. I grew up with narcissistic, power-mad parents and I have always hated the idea of "powerlessness" so I think I really understand where you're coming from around that word in particular. It's really how you make sense of the word in your own head that makes the difference.

Anyway, I am 100% supportive of you being here and posting and saying whatever you want to say, however you want to say it, about your recovery.

[rickfaith]

anyone interested in the steps...could read... How It Works...from chapter 5 of the big book called Alcoholics Anonymous....

No lone has to do the steps... only requirement is to get healthy and want to stay healthy... they are suggested steps...but they are the backbone opf solid recovery for many people. Its all up to each person.

I am grateful today that this new wee group is getting its rots deeper and is growing, and thanks to people like Phoenix, and all of us, we will prevail...think about it...WE are part of a new beginning of recovery...a safe place where a team makes decisions, and no one advertises personal business and so on.... we just spent a few weeks preparing and voting in admin and board...thats awesome...we need to give praise to ourselves!

This is a welcome and safe space-place...

I was banned from another site because i asked a question regarding admin practices being done without a committee or board, and that really hurt me...bjut it was all neccesary for my growth, and to be able to be so lucky and blesses to be on this site...which follows the 12 traditions in its philosophy.... tradition three in AA says... the only require ment is a desire to stop drinking... I am not sure if this group has the 12 traditions written for us yet...or adapted I should say, but tradition three always lets all members know they dont have to do the steps...the steps are suggested only... but...for ME...for me...if i am falling out of an airplane...I suggest to ME that I pull the ripcord on my chute..... thats for ME I am saying that for...

I am just so bglad we arent alone in our hurts and fears and sickness...and...our RECOVERY....!

Heres to us!!! xo and welcome to all!

[rickfaith]

ahem...that should be roots...not rots... lmao!

and Phoenix...your def welcome here...and ylour wisdon and insight always helps me stay grounded... your wanted, and we need your input... your as welcome here as any... all for one and one for all. We are all love musketeers here! I mean....who the heck else is gonna understand us... except us....

hugs not drugs

[trout46]

Sorry I have been MIA. I'm traveling, currently in NYC, and have very limited opportunities to post.

I really agree with Quinn's post and one of Greta's recent comments. The adage, "take what works and leave the rest," is a mantra in the AA groups I have worked with. The 12 steps and 12 traditions have stood the test of time, yet people have interpreted words and phrases differently. In fact, it is standard operating procedure to have such problems. (The greatest, by far, is with HP, but step one also causes many people to get stuck before they can get started.)

The administrative and organizational plan that we posted and voted upon weeks ago made clear that we wanted to be a 12 x 12 group, but that doesn't mean that members will be required to go through the steps, and it surely doesn't mean that a certain interpretation of steps will be mandated. As is the case in AA, working through the steps is highly recommended, but not all recovering alcoholics do so--and remain sober!

Phoenix: Your comment about the word "we" causing you trouble might be a function of a couple of things. First, as someone who has dabbled in many different spiritual traditions as well as psychological perspectives, I have seen how incredibly difficult (indeed, impossible) it often (if not typically) is to integrate perspectives. You might find Jungian perspective very helpful in a therapeutic context, yet find that it seems to be at odds with the tenets of a fellowship like ours. It has been my experience that I don't have to reconcile the alternative perspectives; I simply keep the work I do in therapy separate from the work I do with my fellowship.

"We" is a very important perspective in the 12 step approach. It underscores the fact that I cannot get and remain sober working alone--I surely cannot will myself to be sober. (Been there, done that!) However, when I sit down with a few other recovering souls, and here there stories--as well as their strength and hope--I find that the support of the collective makes recovery a possibility for me. (Strength in numbers.)

I recall my experience in April, when I first found the LAA site. I had been suffering LA mercilessly. I was obsessing 24/7, was depressed, experienced high anxiety and was suffering suicidal thoughts. When I first discovered others that were suffering exactly as I was suffering--others who manifested exactly the same insanity--I was incredibly relieved to find that I wasn't terminally unique and doomed. There was hope, because others were, or had been, in exactly the same condition as me, but were finding ways out of the obsessions, depression, and anxiety that was literally ruining my life. I have learned a lot from others (here). I am safe to come here and post anything about my insanity, and not only receive empathy and understanding, but suggestions and strategies for recovery.

I cannot recover alone. If that were possible, I wouldn't spend countless hours on the board reading and posting. I bring you all my fears, my dysfunction, my ineptitude with obsessive and compulsive love, and you point me toward growth and recovery. Were it not for a few members (who came with us from the old site to this one) I would never have found the strength to implement N/C, which has aided my recovery. "We" can do it; I cannot!

If you need to change the meaning of certain words in the steps to make them work for you, by all means do so. The only requirement for membership of this fellowship should be a desire to recover from any form of love or relationship addiction. Period!

[rickfaith]

I hear you on the we thing tho...i been involved with aa and other groups for close on to 20 years, and i do believe that the we thing can...with some people anyway...keep us from getting close to a deeper I spirituailty.... but to each his or her own.

I am just glad we are here to get I better... together or alone...i need nurturing and get it from you and from me. I wasnt nurtured and so need help with that...always will.

[sexlessw]

I understand where Phoenix is coming from. And I understand where everybody who responded to her is coming from.

I have a confession. I have not done the Steps per se. I'm not ANTI steps - I just never did them in a formal manner.

I personally feel I wish to help others - by helping myself - thru the sadness of dissolving the love bond with POAs. I truly enjoy reading what others are going thru - what steps (For lack of a better term) they are taking to lift themselves out of the sadness hole.

BTDT and wished something like this had been around 10 years ago. Literally ten years ago.

[knowlove]

I have read all posts and this is my reaction. We are a twelve step program and that is what we go by. People who wish to join but for one reason or another are not comfortable do not HAVE to do them, however, they should also respect the board as a whole and not put the twelve steps down to those of us who do, just like I would never say anything negative to someone who has trouble believing in an HP (even though I do). We are all different and will heal and recover by different methods but we need to be respectful and mindful of others on the board and not criticize anyone for any reason. We are here for support and encouragement.

[sexlessw]

KnowLove:

Has there been any issues? Going way OT here, I know. I haven't seen any criticism towards those who are doing any step work - I fully support every person who has to do what they have to do.

[knowlove]

I was saying this so it is clear I guess. Some people at the other board could be very critical and call people out or call them names and it was pretty sad to see. I don't want to see problems like that here where if someone doesn't agree or they do not like what the board as a whole has to say they get nasty about it. KWIM?

[iwillsurvive]

Phoenix --

First, I want to commend you for being honest. I believe being real and honest is an essential part of recovery. Like you, words are very important to me. I stumbled on the term "codependency" for years. Powerlessness and dependency are tough words for me also. Because of the abuse in my childhood, I came to associate those words with victimization.

Trusting my HP is not easy for me. To me, higher power equals authority equals dictatorial rule equals oppression. The thing is, I've given my HP a bad rap and projected my father onto my HP. I'm slowly rewinding that tape and releasing my HP from the stuff I've projected. I believe my HP led me into recovery because he wants me to be free. As you know, there's no freedom when you're addicted to a POA.

In my case, I am powerless over my love addiction and it has negatively impacted my life. That doesn't mean I am powerless in general. For me, it's admitting that all the ways I tried to get around my addiction before entering recovery failed to address my core issues. I've done a lot of counseling and some good work in those sessions, but the stuff being addressed in LRA recovery is going deeper and I believe leading to less dependency on people (including counselors).

I read the article you linked to because I wanted to see that point of view. Some interesting points were made by the authors however I don't subscribe to the revised 12 steps proposed by them. Instead of feeling more shame as they asserted, I feel less shame as I face the truth about myself -- both negative and positive -- and commit to make changes.

That said, I firmly believe we each have a right to our own thoughts and opinions. I respect your point of view and I trust you respect mine and others. You write about being determined to stop having addictive relationships and that is what counts. I'm right there with you.

I cannot speak for you, of course, but for me the "we" of recovery is very important. I learn so much from others in recovery and their progress provides hope that I too will see the light at the end of tunnel. I learn from you, phoenix, and am grateful for your honesty.