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Post by trout46 on Jul 28, 2010 13:07:37 GMT -5
It's nice to begin my days without awakening to wht had been the ongoing anxiety of my longing and obsessing over the POA. My stomach is at peace; my body is calml my mind is not racing (at least it isn't racing with relentless thoughts of the narcissist). Very sweet situation! I so thank God and you all, over, and over again!
Serenity: Congratulations on the significant progress you are making in your recovery program. It has been my experience that the process of making amends can be very difficult, and sometimes quite challenging. I've worked through this in AA, and am still working through it in this program. The timing must be right. In my AA recovery, I was motivated to begin making amends early. As soon as the mind-altering toxicity of mass quantities of alcohol had left my bloodstream, a very definite measure of sanity returned, and I could see much of the wreckage of my past.
Even in that situation, some amends took longer than others, and some will go on forever. I have repeatedly encountered and come to appreciate the concept of "living amends," which can be indispensible for making amends to loved ones who are still in your life--e.g., your children. As the name suggests, living amends are simply demonstrating a sustained period of behavior without the active addiction. My adult children, my closest friends, and others need to see that I have changed. Rather than telling them about it, I live it, do it, and do it consistently. Nothing can be more reassuring to those that still love us and care about us than witnessing the miracle of recovery. Since I am also a recovering codependent, I know that this approach has merit with those issues.
Making amends in LRA can pose very unique challenges, however. I need to learn more about others' experiences with ninth step in this program. I must say that at this point in my recovery--having just pierced the veil of the hypnotic narcissistic trance that had me deep in its clutches—I cannot even begin to imagine the possibility of making any amends to the POA. I know that a number of my own behavior contributed to the demise of that relationship, but I feel as those I have addressed those behaviors in making my AA amends. Is there something I must do, something for which I am culpable, in the way LRA played out in my failed relationship? If so it is beyond my reach right now, and I am comfortable with where I am for the time being.
I can see, however, how some of the responses you (Serenity) received could really trigger your addict. Expressions of love and loving concern from someone with whom you have been in an addictive relationship could definitely be met with intense feelings that might be hard to sort out. At least that is what I imagine when I put myself in your situation. (I’m definitely not clear about this, but I also know that isn’t where I am in the LRA recovery process.)
IWS raises, as she is so apt to do, some very important and insightful questions. What is the nature and source of the fear you feel? What are your vulnerabilities, and how are they manifested in your relationships? In my recovery from alcoholism, I found that fear was the primary motivator and organizer of my behaviors. Behind the fear I found insecurities, and the ways those insecurities—which were predicated in early childhood pain and abandonment—were linked to my perceptions of other people, situations, and the circumstances of my life. Once I gain a clearer understanding of what happened to me as a child to generate my pain and neediness, I am better equipped to make the connections to my present circumstance, understand my character defects, work the sixth and seventh steps, and with the most sincere humility, turn it over to God, who loves me unconditionally.
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Post by knowlove on Jul 28, 2010 14:06:11 GMT -5
Trout so glad you are feeling this good! That is so awesome! serenity I have big hugs for you my dear((((((((VEE))))))))))))))). My daughter is having an MRI today and being sent to a specialist because her fevers have not gone down (except with meds but still 101.8 with three advil) and headaches and joint and muscle pain still there. Her cat scan was normal so now not sure if they will do a spinal tap or not. My daughter's in-laws now have my grandson. It was wonderful having him but boy am I exhausted!!!! Thank you everyone for all your good thoughts and prayers. They mean a lot!!! Will keep you all updated.
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Post by rickfaith on Jul 28, 2010 14:39:41 GMT -5
prayers for all here and our loved ones too. loved ones i mean kids and so on... not stupid dum headed idiotic poas. Just sayin'.
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Post by g on Jul 28, 2010 14:57:03 GMT -5
Yes Rick. Prayers for us all and our loved ones too. The people that really count in our lives and sincerely care about us. G
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Post by trout46 on Jul 28, 2010 16:35:47 GMT -5
Knowlove: So sorry your daughter's condition remains so difficult. Will definitely pray for her and for your entire family. It's good to have you back!
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Post by primrose on Jul 29, 2010 9:49:01 GMT -5
Knowlove, very big hug to you and your daughter. Am so sorry that you've got so much stress to deal with. I hope everything is okay with your daughter's MRI. Am praying for you and for her.
Ohhh it's nice to be here and see the board look so lovely! I've been crazy at work, but I've learnt so much it's worth it. I've learnt about my job and I've learnt about me. Lots of things are clearer for me now. I seem to have broken through some internal block. I thrashed myself with work to get this job finished and I felt totally overwhelmed by the stress, but something told me to keep going, so I did. Which is not very recovery, but hey ho sometimes my unconscious knows best and wants a rock bottom. This morning I woke up in birth spasms. I know that probably sounds bizarre, but I am quite in touch with my birth, and I do get emotional pieces of it coming to me from time to time. I saw my therapist this morning and went into a very deep birth primal and felt that I died. I know that's the reason I could never love my mother or believe in god, because as a baby I died and there was nothing. It was pre-speech and pre-understanding. When I feel into that, I feel the giving up and then the nothing. It is very painful. I feel the pressing need to move forward, but I also feel that as I move forward, I die, and then I did die. I feel two opposing forces of the desire to forge ahead and the need to stop. I cried a lot this morning and afterwards I felt very peaceful. I only seem to be able to access this feeling through work. It happened with my POA when I worked for him, but I didn't connect it so clearly to my birth then, now I see how I was drawn to him because he could trigger so much. And the same thing has just happened again to me with my new client, although in a much less toxic way as I wouldn't have an EMA with him and I don't have to destroy my business and build it from the ashes and it took me 14 days to reach these feelings rather than 14 months. Also this time I have recovery and I can work out what's going on for me emotionally. And am happy and excited in all of this too. I just found a totally new direction for my business. Yippee. I've just created something no one else in the whole world has. That's a good feeling! P.
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Post by knowlove on Jul 29, 2010 10:33:15 GMT -5
Prim,'so happy you are doing well in your business and you have been able to get in touch with your feelings from birth. it must be a relief! Thank you for your prayers and kind words. I've been thinking about you and wondering how everything is going with you and your parents? Knew this was a problem for you with the new client. Hope things are better in that regard!
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Post by CJ on Jul 29, 2010 13:29:59 GMT -5
KL - My prayers for your daughter. This must be very difficult.
I am still struggling with the recent contact from Poa's family. I am not replying to their emails and they don't understand. Poas brother emailed me a recent photo of Poa and her girls. I should not have opened it, but it was 3:00am and I do crazy things at 3:00am. It cut me up; no surprise. Just trying to focus on paperwork and such; don't want to talk to people (except y'all).
CJ
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Post by rickfaith on Jul 29, 2010 22:22:23 GMT -5
so nice to see the 12 steps and traditions front and center... traditions are for the fellowship...steps for the individual///// cant have one without the other tho,...not with groups who want to be healthy and recover in a safe envirnonment. Thx to our admin team.
Love and blessings to all.
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Post by serenity on Jul 30, 2010 9:07:42 GMT -5
I need to do some reparenting today for self care as i've been allowing my negative thinking to hurt me these last few days since making amends to ex's.
Dear Vee,
You are not a 'bad' person at your core my darling nor are you unloveable by any stretch of the imagination. You have behaved badly in the past because you were sick and didn't know any better but you have now been brave and responsible by saying sorry for that behavior to the people you were able to and yhat took a lot of courage so please don't beat yourself up anymore.
You have such a huge big heart and so much love to give and right now you just need to give that love to your self and to remember how much God loves you and wants you to be happy in yourself. You have so much to offer in a relationship when the right person comes into your life and that is left in Gods hands today so let yourself be free now and love your life.
Amen
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Post by quinn on Jul 30, 2010 9:40:45 GMT -5
I've been busy all week dealing with the house. It is now officially sold—hurray! I'm so relieved that is over with. No more going back over there to pick up one last thing and no more back and forth with POA about a million little details. I'm not even sad about it anymore at all. I just feel happy to have passed the house on to people who love it and want it and will take care of it. And I am now free to go wherever I want.
Next up—the divorce. More back and forth with POA to come but at least this is the last piece. He triggered me yesterday with a response to a few of my questions about bills. I sent a message asking something —not super friendly, but polite—and he sent me back a two word response answering my question and not responding to anything else I said. I know people abbreviate in emails but this seemed unnecessarily terse. So now I'm thinking, wtf? Is this supposed to be a punishment? If so, for what?
I can very easily spin out into a rage over this—how can he treat me that way, why is he ignoring me, and he's the one who should be being treated badly after all he has done. Why isn't he filled with remorse! He should be being super extremely nice to me! Does he hate me now?? Why isn't he worried about me hating him?! etc. etc.
I am trying to calm myself down with reminders that he is doing what he's doing because he is a narcissistic, avoidant withholder. And this way of relating to me is exactly why I left. I bothers me that he can get under my skin this way. I'm not in any sense missing him or wanting him. So that's good. But I don't want to care at all about his responses to me. I want to feel like I couldn't care less, like he's just some random guy I once knew who I can hardly remember anymore.
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Post by g on Jul 30, 2010 9:59:50 GMT -5
Big hug to little Vee for being so special (((V)))
Quinn, lovely to see you posting again and congrats on the sale of your house. Great that you have sold it to people who will love and take care of it properly.
As for the continued contact with your Narcissitic SW, all I can say is be patient and just remember that he will probably never change. There's nothing more infuriating than a two word reply to a lengthy email. A total lack of respect even if he is hurt about something. One thing I learned from my experience with my POA who was a N/SW, was to stop trying to figure him out. ANYTHING he said or did could be twisted round to mean the opposite by him if I ever confronted him. Left me feeling very confused just as you are now and ending up blaming myself for something I may have said or done to upset him. There's no figuring them out so I hope you can just hand it over to HP whenever you have contact from now on. Well done Quinn. You are one strong lady! G
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Post by quinn on Jul 30, 2010 9:59:59 GMT -5
CJ, I can't believe they're sending you photos now. That would completely cut me up too. It's really hard for me to not open emails (whether it's 3am or not). I think if I were in your situation I would have to block the email address from ever getting into my box as the only way to avoid having to see them.
Hope you're doing okay today.
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Post by trout46 on Jul 30, 2010 10:14:15 GMT -5
Quinn:
Good to hear from you. Seemed I had missed seeing you around for a while.
I understand the two word response thing that you found upsetting. I believe it is a defensive posture that gives the POA a sense of apparent strength at the hands of the woman who became enlightened about him, saw through him, ans is now at sufficient distance as to not be subject to his narc hypnotic powers. He is frustrated. Angry. Needs attention and needs you (and others) to get in line for him. So, it is anger, but this kind of anger. The frustrating anger of a narc who has lost his grip.
Without a doubt, you don't want to show that it bothers you, as that would be interpreted--in the strange world of the narc--as evidence that he still has some kind of hold on you.
Congratulations on the incredible discoveries and substantial progress you have made in recovery. You sound strong, centered, focused, and totally on to the POA. As you move through divorce, know that you are forever ending this chapter in your life. You will be forever free of it! I suspect the POA will display his "unacceptable loss" repeatedly, flailing at times and biting a other times, searching for any angle that could yield an emotional rise in you. Stay focused.
It's incredible how much progress we make when we stick with the program of recovery, and especially (at least in my experience) when we surrender our powerlessness and unmanagability to our HP.
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Post by iwillsurvive on Jul 30, 2010 11:12:16 GMT -5
Primrose wrote: I know that's the reason I could never love my mother or believe in god, because as a baby I died and there was nothing. It was pre-speech and pre-understanding.
Prim, first of all, it's so good to see a post from you. Congrats on your success in creating something unique and new. I feel your energy just reading about it. Your joy overflows in your words. I quoted you above because I'm curious about what you mean when you write "as a baby I died and there was nothing." Do you mean your spirit died or was squelched by something related to the events surrounding your birth or that you actually died physically after birth. I always learn so much from you, my mentor. I am somewhat familiar with birth regression and totally believe so much of what we experience in LRA is related to pre-verbal experiences. So very glad you are doing so well.
Knowlove, you and your daughter remain in my prayers. Such an awful disease!
Vee, lovely letter to your inner child. How awesome that you can encourage her and tell her the truth about who she is and how valuable she is. Great work!
CJ, very tough situation to receive photos of your POA and daughters. Sounds like that family really wants to suck you back into their dysfunctional system so you can play hero and rescue. Put up your shield and send their request back "returned to sender, address unknown."
Quinn, I have missed your posts. Glad you have sold the house and can put that behind you. Your POA is such a Piece of Work (POW haha). And, yes you can thank him (silently) for reminding you why you left him the first place. My second ex-h used to do outrageous things post-divorce and I would tell my friends and they would ask me why I was surprised because those things were consistent with his method of operation. I guess I kept wanting to believe that he wasn't such a narcissistic, avoidant withholder or that he would turn into a kind human being at some point. Fifteen years later, he is still him. I am no longer surprised by his behavior. I like Greta's suggestion about not trying to figure her N/SW out. Not worth the energy. You seem to be doing so well. So glad to see you back here.
Trout, you are full of a lot of wisdom and I know you earned much of that through the painful journey of dealing with your own narc/ex-w. Is there a PhD is narc busting? Haha. I agree that the key is surrendering this stuff to our higher power. And, switching higher powers from the very unequipped POAs to a benevolent and loving higher power. POAs are like false gods. Of course, there are not gods at all, but we put them on that pedestal to feed their insatiable narc needs. I personally resign from that line of work.
My grandson is next to me right now in his jumper and is watching and listening to a spiritual DVD designed for babies. I am excited to see his wonderment as he is drawn to a higher power at such a young age. At six months, he doesn't understand the words in the music but his spirit can still take in the gentle and soothing sounds and visuals. He loves to start the day this way. Me too. Heading home later today.
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