lotus
New Member
Posts: 39
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Post by lotus on Jul 12, 2010 0:38:44 GMT -5
I've been having problems with my addiction trying to sneak up on me again. Now, I know to look for the triggers. This time I think it is mostly caused by traveling. I was feeling like I had less control than I usually do: I felt at the whim of the others I was with and I was feeling pressured to do work while on vacation. I was also frustrated that my husband and friend were being so un-vegan: not being interested in vegan foods and going fishing several times. I was triggered into thinking about past POA and I also met some people that triggered my addiction (reminded me of POA!), and I allowed myself to fall into fantasy a bit.
I am glad for the awareness. I wanted to escape the uncomfortable feelings I was having by going to my fantasy addiction and I recognize that. I needed to either accept the lack of control that comes with vacations and work responsibilities, or do more to change the direction of things. I need to face the reality that my husband does not share some of my deeply held viewpoints. I don't want to face this. I would rather distance myself from him through fantasy, because the passive way of “leaving” him is much easier than the direct way of leaving him or facing/accepting our differences head on.
What are some of your triggers? How is your awareness about triggers? Are you able to dig deeper and find out what's really going on? How do you use your HP in these situations?
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Post by g on Jul 12, 2010 1:21:52 GMT -5
This post is made to measure for me Lotus (glad you are here BTW!) My triggers this weekend were ANGER at my h for taking his rage out on my daughter and putting her down and calling her a loser. ( I felt like a vulnerable teenager and totally sided with her) humiliation because I had to go round to my parents' for a party and everybody saw me on my own without my h again. I feel exposed and lonely because he is punishes me by abandoning me on social occasions. That's a huge trigger for me because he makes me feel as if I don't deserve a man at my side.
I'm used to men looking at me. Men do that in this countryt and it seems to be quite acceptable. I'm quite attractive and take care of myself but IRL men looking doesn't trigger me, on the contrary that often makes me feel cheap. But my poa flirting via email was different. That triggered me big time and I turned into a cheap shameless woman with my POA in cyberspace. I could only get together with him once IRL but reality did in fact strike and I was never able to go thru with it again.
So I can identify fully with what you are saying about preferring to go into a fantasy world rather than dealing with the real problems in our r/s with our spouse. It's too horrible to even think about separating or starting over. I'll be 50 in a few years and it scares me to think nobody will ever want me or love me again. That's what made me act out in my addiction in the first place.
Now I really am handing over to HP. I went into lala land briefly yesterday with my POA. It was a degrading scene but only happened in my head. A slip caused by repressing my emotions after the last week of stress with my h. Bottling up my feelings causes me to act out eventually. So I have to be careful not to do that. Not out of the woods yet with my h but I KNOW its not about my POA or the illusion he was my soulmate. That dream is dead. Not buried for good. But dead for sure. G
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Post by moonlight on Jul 12, 2010 8:34:55 GMT -5
Dear Greta
Life isn't over at 50. You may have 50 years ahead of you. I've been single a long time. It can be hard. And it can also be very nice. Liberating. Last weekend, I made a trip to the sea and staid in a hotel overnight and had dinner, all by myself. It took some work over the years, but I don't feel lonely anymore when I'm sitting there alone at the table with all the couples around. I'm actually enjoying my own company and sometimes almost laugh out loud because of inner jokes I make about the situation and the people around me! Let them think what they may... I'm happy.
Moonlight
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Post by quinn on Jul 12, 2010 9:22:29 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more Moonlight. I'm feeling like life is just now beginning at 50. When my relationship with stbx got started 20 years ago, I knew very little about myself and how my unconscious issues were in charge of my life. Now at 50, I know who I am, I know what I want, and I'm not willing to give myself up anymore to get unconscious needs met.
I had lunch with a friend yesterday who is 62 (her M just ended two years ago) and we spent the whole time talking about how much fun it is to be who we are now, single, and in a position for the first time to create the lives we truly want.
Ending a M is pretty much always traumatic and not something I recommend. I still think sticking with it, especially when there are children, is almost always the right thing to do. But if you're in the position I was, married to someone who was literally giving NOTHING, along with constant lying and drinking, leaving can be the only sane thing to do.
Anyway, whether you are M or single, 50 is not old. It's the beginning of a great adventure—the second half of your life, where you finally know some things about yourself and the world!
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Post by g on Jul 12, 2010 10:07:55 GMT -5
Sorry didn't mean to be insensitive. My dance group friends are all mid 50's to 60. My dance teacher is the oldest but the youngest at heart so I wasn't really thinking about specific numbers. My h is 45, the youngest of us all but the one that wants to go home before everyone else and the one with the least energy. Not because of his brain tumour op but because of his depression mainly.
My POA and I are were kids when we first met and I feel I was robbed of my youth. Seemed to miss out on a lot of things youngsters normally do. Not allowd to have boyfriends or go on hols with my friends. Maybe getting my youth back was the most important thing for me when I had my EMA. I tried to stop time and pretend I didn't have a care in the world. Threw my conscience out the window whenever I could and lived in the moment. Addict in me is 16 and wants to have fun with likeminded kids. I'm grounding her indefinitely. Sorry again. That was horribly insensitive of me not to consider others when I mentioned age
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Post by quinn on Jul 12, 2010 21:33:20 GMT -5
No worries Greta, I didn't think you were being insensitive at all. You were just expressing your own feelings about getting older. I didn't mean for my post to negate yours. I just hoped to encourage you and all the other posters getting near 50 to look at it in a positive way because that's how I think of it.
It's weird though because when I was still with stbx I was feeling not great at all about 50. There's something about being free of him that makes the age feel good and full of possibility in a way that it didn't when we were still together.
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Post by primrose on Jul 13, 2010 2:17:22 GMT -5
Lotus, lovely to read posts from you!
This thing about age really interests me. My POA was obsessed with age. When I was with him I was too. I had so much anxiety growing up about my age because my father is obsessed with youth. When I got to 12 I got stuck, I didn't want to grow up, it was too scary because my father focuses on teenage girls and girls in their 20s and I was terrified of becoming a girl he desired.
When I turned 30 my husband took me out to a beautiful restaurant and I cried as we sat down to dinner. I felt ancient. My father wants to be 25, so he wants to be younger than his own children. After a woman is 30 she becomes invisible for my father. So my father totally influenced my view on being a woman. I was terrified of growing up because he would desire me, and then at 30 I was terrified of growing older because then I would become a non-person. I was NC with my family at 30 so effectively I did become invisible to my father as we didn't see each other.
I did my best in therapy to unravel the damage done to me around my sexuality and view of myself as a woman. My father really hurt me deeply, he wounded me by being such an uncontained sex addict. I felt very unsafe growing up with him. And I also loved him so much, so I learnt to connect terror and love and sex.
When I met my POA he told me that being involved with him was "my last chance" before I settled into life as a mother and a wife. When I was with him I did re-live my 12 year old self. All of that came back to me. I went back to school and told my POA about it. I was so desperate to connect to my lost teenager. I wanted a new father who I could do all of that stuff with. Of course it was always going to be a disaster trying to re-claim my youth with a man who was just looking to seduce someone and be entertained. But I really see why I tried to capture my POAs attention. My child-self felt that here was a man so like my father that I could have another shot at adolescence and this time around heal the wound.
Perhaps my unconscious isn't so crazy, because that is actually what has partially happened. It was so horrendous re-experiencing my adolescence with my POA, the high of re-capturing my father in symbolic form was followed by the terrible low of being broken by it. It was so bad I had to get help in SLAA, and withdrawal and recovery has really helped me unravel my anxieties about growing up and growing older. I got stuck not wanting to grow up or grow older because of my father's emotional incest of me, and that's not easy to live with. It meant staying a child hating the reality of my ageing body. Recovery has started to change all of that for me in a way that therapy didn't. Maybe I wasn't ready, or maybe I needed to have my heart broken open by active love addiction, I don't know. I do feel that me getting involved with my POA brought back the reality of my adolescence and unfroze a part of myself that I'd locked away because I couldn't face it when I really was an adolescent.
I'm 38 now, and I really like being this age. I don't know how I'll feel about my age later in life, but I do feel much less anxiety about ageing than I used to. I also feel sorry for my father and my POA. They are afraid of growing up and very afraid of ageing. When I was with my POA I really understood his despair about losing his youth and how painful he found it that he was no longer a young man. It was a very difficult thing for him to cope with, he couldn't cope with it. He found it agonising. That's very sad. I'm glad I have recovery in my life and can live a different way and come to terms with myself.
It's strange, in the mix of what happened with my POA I superficially got a rough deal. I chased after a man who was much older than me and who just treated me like a toy. And he got a younger attractive woman who adored him and put him on a pedestal. What an ego boost for him. I went through the agony of withdrawal and obsession while he just moved onto his next conquest. But at a deep level I got so much out of that exchange because it has brought so much healing into my life. My POA didn't use me as a catalyst to change his life, he used me to shore up his narcissism. So now, a few years later I have learnt lots, and he, poor man, probably learnt very little and is still terrified of all the same things. P.
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Post by quinn on Jul 13, 2010 10:05:32 GMT -5
Your last paragraph is exactly how I feel about my M and soon-to-be-divorce Prim. I was growing and working on my issues all through my M (which is a big part of what drove us apart. I wanted more authentic closeness rather than being "rescued" and this drove him further into avoidance). And now through this separation I see even more of my issues more clearly and continue to work on them. I am a completely different person not just from 20 years ago, but even from 3 months ago when I moved out. The relationship and its demise has been an enormous (though painful) gift. My stbx is using the divorce, on the other hand, to continue his same pattern, looking for a woman who will save him from being alone while still allowing him to be completely disconnected and avoidant.
So it's true I'm 50 and single and may have a harder time meeting someone at my age than he will, and it's true I have no financial security whatsoever, but I still think I came out of the M far better off than he did.
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Post by primrose on Jul 13, 2010 12:13:41 GMT -5
Quinn, I think you're amazing and for sure the loss is your stbx's. To lose a woman like you is a tragedy. I feel sorry for him that he'll just continue his patterns and learn nothing. I feel sorry for my POA too. Maybe his career sucess will keep him bouyant, but he's lost his wife and his beautiful home in the years since I had my EMA with him. I have a feeling he's stepped into the addict's decline. Am sure you're absolutely right that you are walking away from your marriage with much more than your ex. P.
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Post by trout46 on Jul 13, 2010 12:43:06 GMT -5
Prim, Quinn, Greta, and others who posted on this thread:
This is one of those very intense, interesting, and consequential discussions of great significance that I regret not really having the time and opportunity to join. Maybe I can return to it later today or tomorrow. There are many thoughts, feelings, and revelations I have had on the issue of aging, and how our thoughts and our beliefs about are aging play out in our relationships. There is obviously some real recovery revealed and expressed in your posts that touch directly on work I have been doing. This thread makes me feel so fortunate and proud to be a member of this fellowship.
I would like to contribute, but my present role as a guest of my friend now requires that deal with more mundane matters (having lunch with my friend). Hope to join you later...
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Post by knowlove on Jul 13, 2010 13:02:46 GMT -5
I never thought my age bothered me yet all my Poa's were younger, some much. Current one is 14 years younger. That says something then doesnt it? Even though outwardly I do not feel I fear aging, in some respect,even subconsciously I must. I want to look young and feel young and not get wrinkles or cellulite. I do not feel my life is ending or near being over as far as having a good fulfilling life but I do realize more than half my life is over (I am 47). This isn't something only La's deal with, i think all of mankind feels this and fears this no? Trout, I am, of course, very interested to hear your thoughts on this topic and how it relates to our recovery. I learn SO MUCH from everyone else here!
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Post by iwillsurvive on Jul 13, 2010 22:55:26 GMT -5
Age-related issues are interesting. I'm 52 and OK with my age, although I live in the land of plastic surgery so it can be tough to show signs of aging when others are getting it erased with botox and lasers. I have had a tendency to be with older men with the exception of one former POA who was two years younger than me. The older man thing for me probably had to do with looking for a father substitute.
Society does tend to devalue people when they age -- especially women. I have bought into that at times, assigning myself a downgrade as I have aged. I am working on losing that tendency because it is part of the low self-esteem that has driven my LA. I'm enjoying the freedom that comes from this time of my life when my children are grown.
Like you greta, my addict is 16. She is the one who made "crank calls" to my POA recently. She was so stifled during the real teen years that she really likes to dance and play and ... it's OK as long as it is not destructive. Although I'm over 50, I'm not offended by your post on aging. I love it that we can be real here because I believe that is the key to recovery from LA.
Prim - So much in your post. I've had such similar thoughts about my
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Post by iwillsurvive on Jul 13, 2010 23:30:15 GMT -5
(oops, continued) latest POA. He continues to avoid his issues and has to keep running away. Fear controls him. I have been in pain and have chosen to work on my issues but this path leads to freedom and I'm really glad I've taken it. Wish everyone would. Prim, I'm so happy that you have gotten out of the box that made it painful to grow beyond 12. Fear stifles life and joy.
Quinn, it is a good thing that you grew to want authentic closeness and not to play the role of being rescued. Too bad your stbx couldn't handle you as a grown woman with strength and power. I pity the next woman he encounters. I can see the tape rolling again, playing the same movie. I know this is a tough time for you, but I agree you have come out of your m in a better place than your stbx. Plenty of men will be interested in you (unless they're totally shallow and you don't want them anyway). They are soooo many single adults in California and elsewhere for that matter.
OK, trout you teased us all with your opening remarks and now we want to know more (as usual).
Knowlove, this younger man thing has become so popular in this age of the cougar. I wonder why you do like younger men. I tend to think of my grown son when I see younger men and that is a turn off. I have had much younger men pursue me but I'm guessing they just want S or money (not that I have a lot). I'm with you. Wrinkles and cellulite are not on my list of must haves.
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Post by primrose on Jul 14, 2010 2:19:03 GMT -5
I'm not triggered at all by younger men, but a few SAs I know in SLAA who are, say it's about being stuck emotionally and not having grown up. So recapturing the intensity (and wounds) of youth through being with someone young. I did the same thing with my POA only I re-captured my youth with a father substitute. Really, my father was emotionally my first boyfriend so it makes sense that if I re-capture youth for me it's not with a boy but with someone older. I often write about facial exercises, but for me they really have been such an important part of my recovery in SLAA. My mother couldn't touch me with love as a child and she couldn't look at me with love. As I aged and saw myself ageing I replicated my mother's lack of love in the way I looked at myself. Not touching my body or face, for me, was a re-run of being an infant and being starved of physical love. Now I regularly give myself a body massage and I exercise my face every day. And it has made a huge difference to how I feel about myself. I've learnt to touch my face with love. My face is no longer something seperate from me that year by year gets very slightly more battered and sad looking. It's ME and it's a vital part of me. It surprised me when I started doing FEs that I started to feel so much better about myself, but now I just enjoy it. Touch is healing and I think I'm very lucky that I stumbled onto something that helps me heal the lack of it I had as a child, and helps me feel pretty P.
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Post by g on Jul 14, 2010 2:30:06 GMT -5
And thank you for telling me about the FEs Primrose. As soon as I wake up, I give myself a knuckle massage on my abdomen. Two pregnancies and C sections have caused some damage but not into plastic surgery so I'm keeping the flaws. I've worked 5cm of my waistline and pretty proud of the shape I'm in. Blessed by good genes, I don't look my age but wasn't coping well with the sad tired look around my eyes and mouth and the FEs not only cheer me up but really do improve muscle and skin tone. I'm OC at times and the exercises help me channel that energy into something that's good for me. I look 'fresher' and find it easier to keep a smile on my face despite all the problems I'm having to face in life. Add some dance and lots of lively music and I am reasonably happy most of the time.
G
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