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Post by iwillsurvive on Jun 13, 2010 2:32:15 GMT -5
I was thinking earlier this evening about the common theme among LAs who feel like they can't live without their POAs. I was embarrassed and ashamed to have these feelings for my ex-h/POA.
When I thought about it, I felt so scared and hurt and isolated when my POA withdrew his affection, attention and "love." I also felt like a vulnerable young child who "lost" her parents. It seemed to mirror separation anxiety I've observed in toddlers.
I wonder if rejection or abandonment from a POA brings back feelings of when we were toddlers. At that time, we were entirely dependent on our parents or guardians. Perhaps we go into some kind of time warp and think we're back there again.
Does anybody relate to this?
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Post by g on Jun 13, 2010 3:19:53 GMT -5
Totally, IWS.
I've read about it even though I can't remember being separated from my parents myself. I definitely have those abandonment and separation anxiety issues relating to later episodes in my life.
One thing I do know is that when I was small I was left with a babysitter I became very attached to. I was her favourite(4siblings) and think she talked about wanting to adopt me as she was childless. My mum says she can't remember that she wanted to adopt me. The old lady would tell me about the chid she had that was stillborn. How she had to squeeze the milk from her breasts long after the birth. very powerful image for a small child to deal with. Phew. Perhaps the old lady was 'brainwashing' me but she made me feel very special and that r/s greatly impacted my life.
I was separated from her at 5 or 6 and definitely remember my mother always criticising the old dear. hmmm...thoughts going round in my head again. Got to think more about this separation as it could well hold the key to my LA. Hadn't thought about it like that before.
so thank you very much for starting this thread. I'm sure many people will add their ideas here.
Primrose has written about this before so I'm sure she'll add more too.
G
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Post by primrose on Jun 13, 2010 4:38:10 GMT -5
Totally relate. It's great that you identify your feelings so easily as coming from that time. You are very lucky to have made that link emotionally. Often childhood is a bit of a mystery for people. The incessant longing that ate away at me in withdrawal was from my childhood. My deep longing for my mother's love. When I was 9 my sister was born so I remember a lot about her life as a baby. I remember how my mother used to leave my little sister crying in her cot for hours and hours. She used to say "let her cry herself to sleep" If my sister was lucky, my mother would let me go into her room and rock her. Not hold her, rock her. I wasn't allowed to pick her up. My mother wrapped my sister up tightly in a shawl so she couldn't move (to comfort her apparently) and left her to cry until she was exhausted and fell asleep. So.. that was my experience of early mothering. No touch, no comfort, no soothing. Reading Alice Miller and Lloyd de Mause years later I was shocked at how similar my mother's "mothering" was to the mothering of the 19th century. I'm 38, and my sister is only 28, but our early childhood was incredibly old fashioned, and very traumatic as a result. When my childhood abandonment was triggered by my POA, a lot of that early lack of bonding came back and the pain was horrendous. P.
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Post by iwillsurvive on Jun 13, 2010 11:12:14 GMT -5
Thanks greta and prim for sharing your experience with separation anxiety. As I'm reading prim's story, it reminds me of the study of those infants who were in a Russian orphanage. They were not held or nurtured and so many of them died from a "failure to thrive."
Touch and comfort and nurturing are essential for infants. It's a need, not a want. Perhaps this is why the "love" of our POAs feels like a need, not a want. And also that we sometimes feel we are going to die without these POAs. Maybe that part of us is frozen in infancy.
Prim, it makes me sad when I hear about what happened to you and your sister. I always thought my mom was the loving one, but if I really look at it, it was for physical, not emotional needs. Greta, your bond with your babysitter reminds me of a bond I formed with my teacher for first and second grade, a Catholic nun, who I clung to. Maybe she was my first POA.
Currently, I've been spending a lot of time helping my daughter with her four-month-old baby boy. Luke is thriving as he gets lots of cuddling, comfort, attention and nurturing. I wonder if directing some of that nurturing and comfort to the "infant me" would bring about healing.
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Post by g on Jun 13, 2010 11:23:10 GMT -5
I want some cuddles too! If safe hugs are ((( ))), how can we represent baby cuddles?
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Post by iwillsurvive on Jun 13, 2010 11:41:35 GMT -5
greta, Sending cuddles to you greta and my other LA friends. I'm wondering if we should try to use our active imaginations and ability to fantasize to cuddle and nurture our infant self. Might as well use some of skills we honed in addiction for a good purpose.
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Post by knowlove on Jun 13, 2010 13:54:31 GMT -5
Iwillsurvive, Great job putting it together. I had no idea when I first got here how much that stuff affected me from childhood. I know without a doubt now in my mind my mother's failure to show love and comfort to us when we were very little has had a major impact on my issues today. Absolutely! I have also found that I am probably feeling not only abandonment issues with her but also because my father left us in her care every day. She says we were such difficult children (she never fails to tell us) starting from being colicky as babies to getting into everything as toddlers. I think she was left alone all day and could not handle being a mother and felt trapped and I am guessing resented us at times. Im sure we felt it and as we got older she told us she hated us, etc. Growing older she had deep depression and obsessive issues which led to her not really wanting to be bothered with anything to do with mothering so at a very young age I learned to take care of everyone and "make everything ok." So the minute I ever feel my POA's were abandoning me or ignoring me I instantly felt very hurt and very angry. I can describe it as a very hot and cold feeling coming from my chest all the way up to my face. I actually FEEL it and feel that deep hurt and anger very strongly. No doubt this is my little girl reacting to feeling abandoned. Now that I know this, I need to learn how to deal with it. Have not learned this yet. Very powerful what our childhood does to us as adults. Like some of you, I too have a young grandchild and I cannot give that kid enough love and I tell him over and over how much I love him. I know he FEELS it and know how very important that is..
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Post by iwillsurvive on Jun 13, 2010 14:18:41 GMT -5
phoenix,
Yes, it was my kind of humor and I'm glad you liked it. It made me laugh to read about you spitting pita chips (btw, I love pita chips). And, welcome to the grandmother's club phoenix and knowlove. Isn't it cool?! Luke was born Jan. 20th so he's very close to the age of phoenix's grandson. These babies show us how precious and vulnerable we were as infants. We deserved the love, affection and attention they are receiving. It's so powerful.
rick,
I'm curious how you think an infant develops jealousy. Or, if the jealousy some LAs deal with has to do with feeling deprivation of love and nurturing. Does it come later with jealousy of other siblings? My jealousy does manifest, but often it shows up in triangles when I'm married. What do others think jealousy comes from?
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Post by primrose on Jun 13, 2010 14:51:13 GMT -5
Such great posts! I think nurturing the infant is so important. Not being soothed as a child makes intimacy a complex thing. I am lucky to have a very understanding husband, for a long time he used to laugh (kindly) and call me "the limpit" because when I was upset I used to cling to him. Just hold onto a bit of him like his leg. Fear paralysed me and I just needed touch to make me feel safe. My husband has been a safe harbour for me for such a long time, but I need to take care of those infant needs myself and not rely on him. It's hard to strike the balance as my infant doesn't know anything apart from need. P.
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Post by iwillsurvive on Jun 13, 2010 17:58:31 GMT -5
That is too funny and adorable at the same time prim! You are fortunate to have a husband that responds to you with love when you're vulnerable. I also like that you want to take care of the infant needs yourself. You are a good role model for me. I have to stop looking for a daddy and/or mommy.
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Post by quinn on Jun 13, 2010 21:50:49 GMT -5
I too must stop looking for a daddy. It is so hard to resist the men that come across as protective, safe, strong, nurturing, adoring. Those SEEM like really good qualities to look for in a partner, but they always (at least all of them I have met so far) end up not being that at all. It's just a seduction and then their real personalities show up and I'm already emotionally trapped. I really don't think I know what the right kind of man is even like. Is it like finding just a good friend?
I can so relate to everyone talking about the craving for touch. In my entire relationship history, I don't ever think I had S with a guy for the first time because I actually wanted S. It was because I wanted to be hugged and I would do ANYTHING to get it. A full body hug from a guy who I think might like me is like crack for me. It's far more powerful than the emotional fix. I think I must have been a tragically sad baby.
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Post by knowlove on Jun 13, 2010 22:24:07 GMT -5
Somewhere along the line we were starved for attention and this is why we crave it now. Some of us in any form we perceive as caring and love. Like I said, arms around me I feel safe and loved and cared for. yes it is just an illusion but at that exact moment, it sure doesn't feel like one. That is when I am my most happiest were I feel nothing in the world can touch me and I am safe.
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Post by primrose on Jun 14, 2010 3:26:38 GMT -5
I think people who seem like powerful parent figures are very damaged. My POA gave off "Perfect daddy" to me and I bought it, but in reality he was completely incapable of being present for anyone. My father gave that off too. My friends growing up adored my father. He was so charming and powerful and he had such an attractive personality. He seemed so confident in himself. But he was really a pretty awful father to me. I think the greater the charm, the deeper the damage! And I include myself in that. I can be very charming, and I know I developed my charm as a way to get what I wanted from people. I remember as an 11 year old thinking "Teachers are just people" and I knew I didn't have to fear them, I could just manipulate them so I could get what I wanted. People were easy to manipulate. It's easy to pretend to be powerful and be adored for it. It builds the ego and feels good if you've got low self esteem. I flipped out of avoidant into adoring child with my POA, but I've been a POA myself. Something almost psychic happens when an aviodant meets a love addict. I just knew how to hook a love addict, it was so easy. It was like picking up a puppet's strings. Having been on the other side as a love addict, I can see I put my strings in my POAs hands and virtually demanded that he made me dance.
These days I'm grateful I met my POA and was brought to my knees so profoundly. It broke my avoidance and I got in touch with so much of what was blocked from my childhood. I'd repressed so much of my longing for my mother's love. The incessant longing I felt in withdrawal was, among many other things, my infant self crying for her mother.
Iwillsurvive, I am very lucky that my husband has always been kind about my vulnerability. He has had to put up with a lot. I was very avoidant and cut off and then at times I would be incredibly vulnerable. He's secure enough in himself that that behaviour didn't phase him. I don't know how I managed to find myself a relatively healthy man when I was 20, but I'm very very glad I did. When he found out about my EMA I thought we would divorce, but we didn't. We stayed together and I'm so happy we did. SLAA gave me back my marriage. I've had to learn that I can't use my husband's emotional wellbeing to shore up my own. I have to find security in myself, and that is hard, but it means I'm less dependent emotionally on him for my happiness and that is good. If he hadn't got cancer and I hadn't had an EMA, perhaps I'd still be using him as a safe harbour, and that would be wrong. It isn't right to use another person to feel calm and happy, but I didn't understand that in the past. P.
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Post by moonlight on Jun 14, 2010 3:33:09 GMT -5
Dear prim, you're an example to me in how to use your powers to the benefit of yourself and others. Love, Moonlight
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Post by primrose on Jun 14, 2010 13:32:55 GMT -5
Moonlight, that is very lovely of you! Thank you. I am still a narcissistic avoidant, but thanks to recovery I've knocked a few of my edges off P/
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