Update ...

[jfriend]

Hey everyone - it's been a few days since I've posted. Quite a lot has transpired: I ended up meeting with my ex on Friday morning - we took a long walk on the beach (where I live). During the walk, we were holding hands, stopping to hug, and had our arms around each other at times. People would definitely take us for a couple. However, she would say things such as, "I think I'm just too wounded to ever have more than a friendship". I'd try to emphasize how we have so much that is still alive, etc. Anyway, we spent a lot of time together, even had a small kiss ... and ended it that we'll have a friendship, but won't close off "possibilities". Naturally, I felt great. However, hours later, I felt the need to text her, and she was "busy". I went into panic mode, ended up calling her later that night; and again, she was saying how she couldn't give anything more that a friendship. But then, she'll go on to say how she's just hurt and venting, and that there are feelings underneath. Yesterday, I couldn't stop myself. I called a friend in tears and said that I couldn't control myself from contacting her. On the way to a meeting, I sent her a text saying that I want to speak with her before she goes on her two week vacation (she's leaving this evening). She said she was busy and had to pack ... but she would contact me later. She kept putting me off, and we ended up talking at 10:00 last night for about two and a half hours. She said the same thing - that she just could give more than a friendship, and then she would tell me how horrible I was to her when I was taking the pills - she was angry. I asked her if she was dating, and she hesitated, but then said, yes ... but nothing serious. Naturally, my fear is that she's dating her ex (before me) who's 17 years younger than me, a drummer in a band - and someone whom I would get insecure about. We got off the phone late last night - she admitted that there are still feelings and she wouldn't "smother them"; however, she has a LOT of anger ... and she just doesn't know if she'll ever be able to give any more than a friendship.

I should add that she has taken her daily beach walks right on the beach where I live, and she lives about 8 miles inland, and even closer to some other beaches. I know she always has loved it around here ... but do find it odd that she wanted to walk somewhere in which there's a good chance she could see me. She claims it's "not my beach" and she has always loved it ...

So ... those are the obsessive details ... NOW about my part - here's the deal, my friends: I'm not being honest with her. I'm telling her how GREAT our relationship was before my relapse (of which she agrees), and I'm telling her how my "taking a stand" for our love is honorable. In short, I'm saying WHATEVER I can say to get her to want me back. I'm saying anything I can say to get her to let down her walls. I'm saying ANYTHING, and losing my dignity and self respect. In the meantime, I'm calling friends, my brother, etc. ... even crying on the phone, telling them I can't stop. And then, when speaking to my ex, I'm acting like I'm strong and proud because I'm fighting for our love. My friends, I'm throwing away ALL of my dignity (if there is any left). In short, I'm a mess!

I can't stop thinking of the reality that I actually broke NC and turned into EXACTLY what I knew I would if she didn't respond how I wanted her to. I KNEW THIS WOULD HAPPEN! I'm controlling, manipulative, and dishonest. I have a good way of sounding honest - and it's ALL just hooks I'm throwing out in hopes that I can have her back. I have no idea if I really want kids (I tend to think maybe not); and yet, I'm telling her that it doesn't sound like a bad idea any more ... because I know she wants to have kids. I just can't believe that this gal who loved me "so much" is now rejecting me.

Anyway, this is what is going on. Like I said, she's leaving for vacation today, and it's a good time for me to begin NC again. I simply do NOT trust myself and what I'll say if I contact her. Basically, I feel I'll say anything. I need to recommit to truly getting well, guys - I really do. This rejection is almost too much to bear ... and I just have to get acceptance. I HAVE to accept that I'm not going to get my way, and just let go.

Please help ...

[g]

Oh boy jfriend do I relate!
I told my poa I loved him and that we'd be in each other's lives forever. I told him I'd choose him over my h if I could. I told him we'd do a,b and c while I knew deep down I didn't want any of those things.
So much of this stuff is in our heads. If they reject us we want them back. If we reject them, they start looking for us. It's such a sick game for all those involved. Jealousy is a massive trigger for me too. How could my poa be interested in anybody else when he had me??? How dare he even think of getting on with his life?

I so identify with the crying on friends' shoulders when things don't go our way. Oh the memories are really painful.
I couldn't stand myself or my behaviour when I was clingy , needy and insecure. But that is how I was with my poa. Apparently strong and independent and pushy with him or a mumbling mess. Nothing in between.
No advice jfriend but thanks for reminding me of how horrific active addiction is.
10 mths in recovery yesterday for me. I was at church this morning and actually thought to myself ' I NEVER want to love anyone ever again the way I loved my poa. '
I could never survive another bout of insanity like that.
I want to be the best me possible but when I was in the throes I was the worst me imaginable and I must never ever forget that.
Neither should you forget how terrible you are feeling right now.
NC might help you to see that you can't go back to being what you were with her. Your addict will do anything to stop you from acting logically and rationally. And I have to lock mine up if I want to accomplish anything in life.
G

[primrose]

Jfriend, I think dignity is the first thing to go in addiction. I had not a shred of it when I was acting out. But today is a new day. You can be sober today and get better from today, and it doesn't matter about losing your self respect yesterday. Well done for going NC again. Sometimes it's helpful to see how quickly our sense of dignity can be lost. Once I felt self-esteem in recovery, I knew what it was, and I didn't want to lose it permanently. Big hug. P.

[jfriend]

Thanks, Greta and Primrose. You know, I wasn't feeling much growth during the past four months ... but as was shown, I didn't do much work on this particular addiction. I went to a lot of AA meetings, and I have my sobriety from alcohol and drugs ... but I did so much obsessing on my ex. Sure, I spoke about it, wrote here occasionally, etc. However, I didn't dig DEEP into my love addiction. I'd like to know where to start ... are people working the Steps on this site?

[trout46]

Jfriend: The really good thing here is that you see yourself for what you honestly are–an active, out-of-control love addict! I know what you are going through, because I did my own version of this very thing when the POA and I got back together again. Like you, I said just about anything I thought she wanted to hear. I did all the things that you described so well, and became all the things that you see in yourself.

I can tell you what the ending looks like too.. A breakup is very predictable, and more importantly (since you still have the opportunity to turn this locomotive around, and drop it like a hot potato), I can tell you that the withdrawals you will go through would be significantly worse than those you have already experienced.

Being on the recovery side of things, where I no longer think about, much less obsess over, the POA, gives me a perspective that was simply impossible to see or understand when I was in active addiction mode. I can tell you that it is wonderful to live my life being totally honest in all matters. It is also great to have my self back. I gave my self (my social self as the sociologists call it) totally up when I was with the POA. Who was I back then? I guess I was whoever she wanted me to be. Can you relate to that? It sounds like you have experienced exactly the same thing!

Thank God you are seeing this matter, and yourself, clearly. I have to think that the work you have done on the boards, and everything you have learned and discovered about love and relationship addiction, is kicking in and helping you to understand what is happening to you, and what will befall you more completely if you continue to pursue your POA. When I was in your shoes, I had convinced myself that I needed the POA back in my life. As my best friend said to me when I was visiting him in NYC last month, “watch out what you pray for,” because it might be granted.

I hope you will follow through on the instincts you shared in your post. I know without any doubt where things will end up if you continue in hot pursuit. You don’t need it, and you don’t want it! Good luck.

[jfriend]

Trout - as always, thanks so much for your feedback and insight. I will say one thing - this experience (although unbelievably painful) has truly opened my eyes back up regarding my ex. She is, indeed, FAR from perfect. Even more, she has definitely "played with my emotions" this time around (holding my hand on the beach, kissing me, etc.). However, I've also seen my dishonesty, manipulation, etc. I will say one difference: I will admit to my faults, whereas she admits NO responsibility for any wrong doings (aside from - as she says - taking my "crap" for too long). I don't need to focus on her faults ... but I'm thankful that I can now see them - and I DO need to keep them in mind when I tend to put her on that pedestal.

More importantly, I need to focus on me. I want to be an honest man ... I don't want that awful feeling of manipulating to the point where I'm making proclamations that aren't even true, simply to get my way. I want to change. I want to look myself in the mirror and have faith in myself. And, I want to get out of myself.

I know I've been completely self-consumed on this board, and perhaps I need to start being more a part of the group here. I'll admit, right now, it's difficult ... simply because of the crazy pain I'm experiencing. But, I know it can and will get better if I honestly work on myself. It's clear to me where breaking NC takes me in this addiction ... it takes me to a place where my addict runs wild. I can't afford that anymore ... it will kill me.

[g]

Jfriend,
Reading this thread has helped me a lot. Its so good to see the fog lifting for you. So important for me to see someone in the early stages of recovery but still experiencing the anguish of obsession.
Addiction is a bit like childbirth I think. Excruciatingly painful when you are in the throes but then once you're out of it your brain rewires itself so you FORGET the horrific pain. Nobody would have a second child if they could remember what it feels like to be 'ripped open'. Sorry for being so graphic but I think the analogy works.

We addicts need to be around each other and those who have more recovery are morally obliged to do service to keep their recovery. That's why fellowship is fundamental and compassion and humility are essential. We could all be back where you are now, before we even know it, if we presume that we are 'cured'. Its great that you are coming out of your addict and are opening your eyes to reality. I felt like a baby must feel when it comes into the world. The world is brand new - colours seemed brighter, noises louder, smells more intense. Addiction had filled my world only with the destructive presence of my poa and everything and everybody else was a meaningless mass of nothingness.
Waking up to reality, seeing our poas for what they are (let's remember WE put them on the pedestal in the first place) is a huge first step towards a better life. A life where we can be REAL. Maybe we will be boring and less exciting without all the drama but we will be US and not have to pretend to be what we think our poa wants us to be.
I'm going away tomorrow but hope to catch up with you in a week jfriend.
We have LRAA steps posted at the very top of the board. I worked the steps by reading the BB of AA online. We don't have specific step questions on here yet but I'm sure you can apply what you already know about the steps to your LRA. You could start your own thread in the stepwork forum in the meantime
G

[serenity]

I'm working the Slaa HOW steps jfriend, they are intense and get to the core of the issue in my humble opinion. Are there any mtg's nearby you can get to for love addiction?

[trout46]

Jfriend: This is good; very good! As Greta said, the the fog is lifting. I had the most profound experience with my fog lifting not that long ago, and it was accompanied by a rush of insights about POA that I had never seen or understood before. I am so happy for you. This is just huge, as this is the way your POA loses the stranglehold her persona has held over you.

You should feel absolutely good and fine bringing every little bit of what you are going through--your pain, frustration, confusion...everything--to the board, and sharing it with the rest of us. That is how this process works. Don't ever believe that you should only bring the insights and realizations to the board. Hell, I brought endless pain and suffering to the group for a long, long time.

You are really making progress. Don't let up. In fact, step it up. Seeing that you have been in a fog, and that your POA is not the poor, little, defenseless, perfect, and innocent person you have seen her as is definitely the gateway to bigger and better things for YOU!

I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow morning for 8 days, and will be off-line that entire time. So, don't misunderstand my silence and failure to respond to your posts. Stay on it though, my friend. I am so happy for what has been revealed to you.

Turn now to your HP for the strength, courage, wisdom, and insight to grow and recover from this dastardly addiction.

[iwillsurvive]

jfriend -- So glad you're starting to see your POA as the human being she is and not the perfect goddess you imagined. Please protect yourself from further injury by staying away from her. Sounds like she's sending mixed signals -- which is what my POA did.

It's time to focus on you and recovery of yourself plus your connection to a higher power. It makes sense that you had to go through recovery from substance abuse before you could really work on love and relationship addiction.

So sorry for your pain, but I know there's a reward on the other side of it. That reward is freedom and the ability to love and be loved in a healthy way.

Keep posting and if you want to attend an in-person meeting, let me know and I might be able to meet you there. Sunday I'm leaving for a vacation and will return the following Monday. I'm around through Saturday. Praying for you. Be good to yourself.