|
Post by CJ on Jul 30, 2010 11:52:23 GMT -5
Quinn - Congratulations on the home sale. One brick lifted from the load. I am sorry you were triggered by Poa's two-word answer. If he is narcissistic, he could have concluded after selling the house that you would no longer be a source of attention for him or, worse, a source of negative feedback, and feel no need to support the continued relationship (such that it is). An N is never going to express sincere remorse or appreciation for what you have done. He is all about satisfying his needs in the present. It is hard not to puzzle over the reasons. Would it be good for you if your contact was minimized to two-word answers and you were comfortable with that?
Thank you for your concern. The emails from Poa's family have eased up. Her brother is an amateur photographer and he had been sharing landscapes with me that he had been taking ever since the end of the relationship. I really loved the area that I lived in while in England and enjoyed the pictures. Since I intended to return when I came back here, I did not bother to take pictures of the area, house, etc. We would never talk about Poa or anything specific in our emails. The picture of Poa and the girls that he just sent was the first personal thing that he said or sent. I guess I will have to now put an end to that emailing. Oh well. The price tag on this thing just continues to grow.
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Jul 30, 2010 12:17:24 GMT -5
Greta, it's so true how the N/SW can twist things around to mean whatever they want them to mean. Whenever I did something that made him mad I would either feel badly and try to fix it, or feel unjustly accused and try to defend myself. But I could never fix it enough for him unless I gave myself up completely and I could never stop defending myself until he acknowledged that I had not done anything wrong. Of course that was never going to happen, so I was left endlessly explaining my point of view, trying to get him to hear me, which just made him more angry with me for wanting something from him. You're right there's no figuring them out. And there's certainly no getting them to see things from our point of view. Trout, very interesting what you said about POA getting a sense of strength out of his little two-word answer. Your description: "He is frustrated. Angry. Needs attention and needs you (and others) to get in line for him" sounds exactly like him. I think you're right. There were so many little pieces of getting the house ready for the sale and negotiating the deal that he did not have control over, that he was forced to accept my input on because the sale couldn't go through without my consent, I think it must have infuriated him. He is no longer the sad little boy, crying over the tragedy of our break-up (the break-up he wanted) but has become the enraged narcissist who is beginning to see I am no longer under his magic spell. I do not simply do what I am told anymore. You are also absolutely right that he would interpret me getting upset in any way as proof that he still has a hold over me. I hope to go into divorce negotiations with an impermeable force-field around me so that whether he flails (tearful little boy) or bites (vicious thwarted narc) I will remain calm and unaffected. I'm going to think about the Buddhist idea of being the mountain. Rain pours down on it, snow covers, it, animals climb over it, trees crash down upon it, but the mountain remains the mountain—still, solid, immovable. I agree with Iwillsurvive that you should probably be awarded a PhD in narcissist busting. Iwillsurvive, yes he is indeed a POW . It's so strange how we keep expecting they are going to turn into kind human beings. We're doing all this work to recover: reading books, posting, going to meetings, and it's still a long hard road. They don't do anything at all and we expect that they will become different just because some time has gone by? What is the DVD your grandson is watching? I've never heard of a spiritual DVD for babies. Sounds interesting.
|
|
|
Post by g on Jul 30, 2010 12:21:19 GMT -5
CJ, perhaps the only way to stop the price tag from growing is to go NC. It seems so drastic when we are in the throes of our addiction but 'no new pain or hurts' which NC only allows, is a huge protection for us. Even what might seem an insignificant scrap of information to others can be immense for us addicts and we'll spend hours, days, weeks obsessing over a tiny detail. So a picture you weren't expecting to receive? That must have knocked you to your knees.
Think seriously about NC and moving forward CJ. You have enough old pain to process as it is and certainly don't need your brother in law or anybody else to stick the needle in your arm when you least expect it. G
|
|
|
Post by quinn on Jul 30, 2010 12:30:28 GMT -5
CJ, yes the price tag is very high. But the cost of staying with the POAs is even higher. I'm glad the emails have slowed down and you're getting a break from that. It's so awful to feel scared to open one's inbox.
Thanks for your words on the POA/Narc. You're right that he will never express remorse or appreciation unless there's something in it for him. When I think back on our relationship, even back when he was crazy "in love" with me, I can see now that all of his emotional energy was on his love for me, how he felt about me. His love for me wasn't about me at all. It was him being in love with his own feelings about me.
|
|
|
Post by knowlove on Jul 30, 2010 12:51:04 GMT -5
IWS, love your words of wisdom! I read your posts and think you write so eloquently and with such insight. Glad you have sold the house and are feeling the strength to move on with things and not allow POA's tactic's to upset you in any way. When you realize where the behavior is coming from and why it is easier to handle because you realize it is a form of manipulation and makes one all the more determined NOT to give in to it. Great for you to be seeing this and realize exactly what is going on! Prayers for a more peaceful way to your divorce and hopefully he will see his antics no longer work and he gives up. IWS- I get my grandson again on Sunday so will be resting up! I love him to pieces but boy is he tiring! I loved the early stages as well watching them as they discover sights and sounds. How ownderful that you get to enjoy him as much as you do. They do bring so much happiness to our lives. Cj-glad to hear the emails are easing up. Awful position for you to be put in by POA's family as of course they want her to be well and see you as her savior but unfortunately not at all considering YOU or your well being. That has to come first above all else. Don't most of us feel responsibility for everyone and everything in our lives (especially us co-dependents?). We put so much pressure on ourselves to help everyone and all it doe sit deplete us. feeling a bit tired today. daughter very slowly feeling better but still has the fever and headaches. Think she has a long way to go. Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers. I am going to an outdoor concert with my H, his sister and mother. A couple friends of mine will hopefully be there as well. Have been spending a lot of time in bed which is not good but feeling completely exhausted.
|
|
|
Post by g on Jul 30, 2010 13:26:21 GMT -5
Knowlove,
So glad that your daughter is getting better, albeit slowly. It will probably take time and no doubt it will be very tiring but the important thing is for her to get her health back. As you said looking after your grandson is very tiring so I can imagine how difficult it will be for your daughter to cope if she's not in perfect health. KL and IWS, I love hearing you talking about your grandkids. What a change for me! When I got involved with POA I remember telling him I was terrified of ageing and at the prospect of becoming a grandma. I can honestly say I'm quite looking forward to it in the years to come.
Oh and KL, rest as much as you can when you can. You deserve some me time. G
|
|
|
Post by knowlove on Jul 30, 2010 13:49:21 GMT -5
Thanks Greta!!! Been slacking in bed all day!!!
|
|
|
Post by CJ on Jul 30, 2010 14:31:46 GMT -5
Thanks G - Yeah, I guess No Contact means No Contact.
Quinn - I wish I was afraid to open my Inbox, maybe I wouldn't. I have to find the strength to cut that last thread.
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Jul 30, 2010 17:49:15 GMT -5
Prim, first of all, it's so good to see a post from you. Congrats on your success in creating something unique and new. I feel your energy just reading about it. Your joy overflows in your words. I quoted you above because I'm curious about what you mean when you write "as a baby I died and there was nothing." Do you mean your spirit died or was squelched by something related to the events surrounding your birth or that you actually died physically after birth. I always learn so much from you, my mentor. I am somewhat familiar with birth regression and totally believe so much of what we experience in LRA is related to pre-verbal experiences. So very glad you are doing so well. Hi IWS, I think I'll post a link to some primal writing I came across in outside sources, it is very close to my own experience. I was born not breathing and had to be helped to breathe. The cord was around my neck, so as I moved forward in the birth canal, I was being strangled. That comes back to me in therapy and it is absolutely terrifying. Not sure about being a mentor Feeling very much like a beginner again in my process. But nice of you to say that! Hugs to all LRAs. Am looking forward to being here again and getting to grips with the step forum, yay! Lots to catch up on. P. xxx
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Jul 30, 2010 18:53:46 GMT -5
Knowlove, am happy your daughter is getting better, what a stress for you all. Good for you for slacking!
Quinn, phew, what a power of work you're doing to get well, am sorry it's such a stress for you being triggered and dealing with everything. Big hug for all of it.
CJ, hope you can cut that last thread. thinking of you.
I've had an interesting day. I feel really well. My therapy session yesterday has really opened things up for me. I am sure I have more to feel around this particular block I have as any mention of god or mothers makes me twitch with fury, but right now I feel physically and emotionally quite free. It's lovely! I did a few interesting things today, and also I rested a lot. Today felt like a flow day and that feels very good. P.
|
|
|
Post by pengal18 on Jul 31, 2010 7:58:27 GMT -5
So much work to do it makes me tired sometimes. When asked by therapist this week what would happen if I spent a weekend alone - my answer was "Die." This is where i"m at. And although that is huge to discover, it is terrifying. WHat do you do with that?
Was pinged 3 times this week and maintained NC. Now I just need to learn to fully be at peace with myself and not rely on "distractions".
CJ - good for you for staying strong. It is so hard. Thinking of you. Primrose - sounds like you are learning alot in your work too. That's great. KL - good for you for taking care of yourself! Quinn - LOVE your last line. I can really relate to that.
|
|
|
Post by g on Jul 31, 2010 9:01:08 GMT -5
Good to see you posting again Pengal.
I'm sure you wouldn't die if you spent the weekend alone. I used to think that every weekend when my POA was never available but I managed to get to Monday even if I was in pretty bad shape.
Once I finally broke away from him, I sweated it out for a week or so but got so much support from the board that I hardly noticed weekends at all.
Learning to just 'be' has been an eye-opening experience for me and to be honest I really enjoy that new found peace when I actually have a chance to unwind.
G
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Jul 31, 2010 10:07:59 GMT -5
Pengal, am happy for you that you got pinged 3 times but stayed NC, well done!
I'm happy today. I had a lazy morning and then went out for a stroll with my husband. We stopped off for a coffee in a village cafe, it was really nice. And it's a beautiful day. I never really know exactly how my process works, but since Thursday morning and my deep feeling work with my therapist, I've felt good. Somehow some of the block about moving forward when I am also stuck, has begun to shift. I feel at peace, and I also feel very close to my real feelings. I think I need to make the most of being so in touch with my birth and feel as much of this as I can. It doesn't surface very often. My therapist saying to me that people cared and wanted me to live and helped me to breathe, has really touched my heart. I was helped. I was cared for. It is not only true that I died. I'm alive. I'm here. People wanted me to live. Somehow that is something my baby self couldn't connect to. The pain of dying was too great. It is strange that I've got to these feelings by working like crazy for 2 weeks for a narcissist, but then, my POA triggered me more deeply even than my husband getting cancer, so perhaps I shouldn't be so surprised that work is the doorway to the unconscious for me. Pressure connects me to pressure in the birth canal, and if I thrash myself with work, then I can get close to the feeling of being born. It's the constant effort and exhaustion and mental and physical intense concentration that is similar to birth. And I've been creating something totally new with a client who has been saying "move forward, NOW NOW NOW" while working with an artist who has been yelling at me saying "STOP STOP this is wrong, you're going to fast, this project is going to go wrong" and I've been in the middle of these two men who both wanted different things, and both were right and I had to decide what to do. And I birthed the project, I made it, and it's fantastic, but it also went wrong. A lot. So it has been the perfect symbolic re-play of my birth. I find it odd that it is usually with men that I get to my birth feelings, not women, but perhaps I'll make sense of that in time. For now I'm just grateful I've been able to feel some of it and resolve a little bit of it. P.
|
|
|
Post by trout46 on Jul 31, 2010 10:51:24 GMT -5
Prim: I doubt that I am the only HGM who is intensely captivated by your unbelievable ability to get in touch with your birth experience. Parts of what you describe remind me of what I know about Primal Scream therapy from many decades ago, although I never pursued such an approach. What an absolutely intense experience! I'm really filling-in the blanks here, but have to think that this original trauma has a primary role in how your deepest self was constituted. I'm going back to my inner child, but you are going way, way back.
Would love to hear more about how you came to this work, and exactly how it fits into an overall process of recovery.
|
|
|
Post by primrose on Jul 31, 2010 11:18:45 GMT -5
Trout, thank you! Am actually surprised that talking about my birth doesn't alienate everyone. Mostly I keep quiet about it because it's not really mainstream, or spoken about much in recovery, but it is very important for me.
It is a profound part of my journey. It meant I had no spiritual connection and never bonded with my mother. It made me a narcissist at birth really, because I felt so early on that I was totally alone. I began to unravel my birth because of my sexual anorexia. When I was in SLAA and SANA a decade ago, I hit such a wall around my sexuality, and I couldn't heal it just in recovery. I was exploring body work and sexual therapy and working on my inner child. I knew I'd been molested, but even that didn't explain the horrendous shut down I had around sex. I came across Janov's book and knew I was onto the reason, and I just had a sense reading his book that I had nearly died as a baby and I had the feeling that the cord had been around my neck. My mother later confirmed that for me. So I did primal therapy in groups for a few years and now work with a Jungian therapist who also does deep body work with me when I need it. Birth work totally transformed me sexually. The blocks disappeared as I did the body work. It was miraculous. I left recovery, so I wasn't in meetings when I did Primal, but it is a big part of my inner work. My birth comes up less now. Once I worked through the sexual block, I had less of it to feel, but it is here again, so I'm going with it. Perhaps it is present again because I am now in DA which means I am working on my relationship with my mother, I don't really fully understand my process, so I can't be sure. Perhaps it is because I have had IVF and will have it again soon. It is a bit of a mystery, but I trust that it's coming up for a good reason. When it comes up, blocks do fall away quite quickly, and for that I'm very grateful. P.
|
|