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Post by g on Jul 31, 2010 11:45:39 GMT -5
I find all this really fascinating. A bit too deep for daily check in maybe and really deserves a thread, if not a board of its own Primrose. I'm reading all this information but like Trout am seeing how important inner child work is for me and as we all know there's only so much we can work on at a certain time. I feel ready now to peel back another layer but I know my birth is going to demand attention before long. My experience of pregnancy and giving birth first time was so traumatic for me. After a long extremely painful labour I had to have an emergency C section. There was no amniotic fluid left in my womb, my placenta was no longer allowing my baby to receive the nutrition she needed, the cord was wrapped round her neck twice and I felt responsible for not being a perfect childbearer.
It took me so long to bond with my baby and I can imagine how terrible it must have been for her to leave the safety of my womb. I remember grieving about her no longer being in my womb once she was born. My body wouldn't have let her go if it had been up to me. Don't know where I'm going with this but I had to write it down G
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Post by trout46 on Jul 31, 2010 12:12:49 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing that Prim! I have always been deeply intrigued by a person's ability to go that far back. I have to assume a trained therapist guides you slowly back. But wow! How incredible is that?! Your wide ranging and intense recovery experiences are like none I have ever previously encountered! I hope (selfishly) that you will be able to stay closer to the board. Your experiences, insights, and the overall inegration of the wide-ranging approaches you have used is truly amazing to me (and I know enlightening for you!).
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Post by primrose on Jul 31, 2010 14:20:18 GMT -5
Dear Trout, I don't think I deserve your good opinion I've been very lucky to have found people in my life who guided me towards what I needed at the right time, and I've been in a city where I could have anything I needed to heal if I wanted it. I've been very fortunate that I live where I live. I live in a heartland of psychotherapy basically! G, I am so sorry you went through such a traumatic birth with your daughter. It must have been terrifying for both of you. Maybe we could start a thread on birth? I would really like that. P.
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Post by quinn on Jul 31, 2010 15:16:36 GMT -5
Pengal, You said you don't know what to do with the realization that if you spent a weekend alone you think you would die. I haven't had that particular feeling (I'm pretty good at spending time alone) but I have had that kind of terror in other parts of my life and what I learned is that the only way out of the terror is to do the thing that I think is going to kill me.
I used to be completely certain, literally every single night of my life, that someone was going to break into my room while I was sleeping and rape and then kill me. I felt this way not just as a child but well into my 30's. The smallest noises would wake me up and I would lay in bed in the middle of the night, my heart pounding, sure that the murderer was right outside my door, every single night.
Though I knew this was connected to trauma in my past and had been in years and years of therapy, all this work did nothing to change the terror. One night, however, as I lay in bed completely exhausted from straining to hear if that sound I just heard was the killer creeping through my house, I finally was just sick of it all. I said to myself, "Fine. He's here and he's going to kill me. There's nothing I can do about it so I might as well get some sleep." I truly thought the murderer/rapist was in my house—it's not like I suddenly had let go of the fear—I just finally decided living in terror was worse than actually dying.
I went to sleep and slept through the night without waking again for the first time in 35 years. And I haven't laid awake at night in fear ever again. I don't think this is because I have stopped believing in the rapist/murderer's existence, but because I realized that the terror was killing me in a more painful way than the actual killer would have.
So... my advice, if you're interested, is to spend a weekend alone no matter how much it scares you. You probably won't die, and the realization that you made it through will give you a new strength and confidence for future weekends.
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Post by quinn on Jul 31, 2010 15:23:20 GMT -5
Greta, I didn't know this story about your daughter's birth. That must have been so terrifying for both of you! I'm thinking about how Prim's birth parallels this and also about Iwillsurvive's experience of being rejected for not being a boy and her daughter being rejected for the same reason. I think these first experiences of birth (whether it's being born or giving birth) are crucial to understand in order to work on our recovery. I wish my mom would tell me something about my birth. (She just always says it was a hot day—not quite the information I'm looking for.)
I agree with you that this topic needs a thread of its own.
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Post by trout46 on Jul 31, 2010 21:38:22 GMT -5
Quinn: What an intense, terrorizing fear you lived with, yet defeated by directly confronting it. Your strength and determination to make it through the first night was incredible! It has been my experience that we definitely gain strength--sometimes, as you experienced, incredible strength--by going headfirst into a fight with our demons. I'm not sure I have heard a more frightful story than yours, however.
This helps to explain the intense determination you have mustered to make it through the awful divorce scenario you have been dealing with. Your recovery progress has really clicked into high gear. I'm so very happy for you!
Greta: I too never knew this story about your daughter's birth. Both mother and daughter were so challenged and in such jeopardy. Your HP was definitely looking out for you both.
I agree with Quinn about the obvious similarities in the very troubling early experiences of a group of women in our fellowship. I am working with my inner child (having directly spoken to him for the first time ever today), and find a similarity in the fact that the very earliest experiences I can recall (about the age of 3), are of my father in a full-blown rage. The poor child was so totally terrorized by those displays. The most compelling work I am moved to pursue with him is to comfort him from the effects of those terribly destabilizing experiences.
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Post by g on Aug 1, 2010 6:02:30 GMT -5
I've created a board called 'The Cycle of Life' where we can talk about life, death, parenthood, coping with bereavement etc.
Have already started two new threads there. Please copy and paste any of the threads above onto those threads or new specific threads you might wish to create.
G
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Post by g on Aug 1, 2010 12:20:16 GMT -5
A huge HUGE discovery since coming to this new board is that we really MUST talk about our past. Doing inner child work is absolutely essential for me and for many of you.
Wow! As a very dear friend just said, this board ROCKS!!!
G
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Post by iwillsurvive on Aug 2, 2010 3:38:59 GMT -5
Went to an outdoor concert with a friend this afternoon and saw my POA with his new girlfriend. I also saw a couple of women who treated me very poorly about this time last year. I saw the former women friends first and it brought up all kinds of feelings of rejection and shame and sadness and anger. Do I stuff emotions or what?
Then, I look up at the dance floor and see my POA with a partner -- seeming to proceed like he is at an endless fraternity party. He's 62 but doesn't look like it and I'm 10 years younger than him. It was kind of surreal. This is the first time I've seen my POA since we broke up in March. I have mixed emotions. My POA was most likely drunk and I doubt he has entered into any kind of recovery for his issues so in that way he held no appeal for me. He is a narcissist and on to his next source of narcissistic supply. Last year, we went to these concerts together and so seeing him reminded me that people are interchangeable and basically objects so he has no problem moving on to the next gf.
It was hard not to compare myself with the new gf. Anyone relate to that? I thought she was a little thinner than me, but my friends said we had very similar figures. I made a few jokes and then called a friend in recovery. It was sooooo good to have months of LRA recovery and to be able to deal with the POA sighting without acting out in any way. I DO feel stronger and more centered and confident. I'm grateful that I don't feel pulled in the POA's direction.
One of my favorite lines from a movie called "As Good as it Gets" declares: sell crazy somewhere else. We're all stocked up here. I think it sums up my thinking on my POA narc, SW.
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Post by CJ on Aug 2, 2010 9:17:13 GMT -5
IWS - I am sorry to hear you ran into POA, especially under those circumstances. It sounds like you handled it really well. Well done. I don't know about other guys, but I compare myself with new boyfriends and such when I encounter them. Even my ex-wife. She had her boyfriend at my daughter's graduation a few years ago and it was not entirely comfortable all of us trying to be one big happy family.
I went to a concert on Saturday night. Danced, sang, flirted, jumped up and down, all that stuff. It was the most fun I have had in a long time. I had been really down about Poa and her family and this was just what I needed. I found myself realizing that I had never, ever, had this much fun with Poa; other good stuff, but never crazy fun. I like fun.
CJ
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Post by quinn on Aug 2, 2010 10:19:26 GMT -5
IWS, Seeing the POA with his new girlfriend for the first time is a hard one (one I have not yet had to face) but it sounds like you were able to keep your wits about you and remember his narcissism and how people are interchangeable objects for him, rather than getting lost in LA-amnesia. And then you called a friend in recovery. Good for you! I'm so happy for you that you're feeling strong and confident.
I had never heard the "sell crazy somewhere else" quote. Very funny! I'm going to save that for the day ten years from now when POA wants me back.
CJ, Realizing that you never had crazy fun with POA like you did at the concert seems important. I, too, am realizing all kinds of things I'm doing again that I never did with POA because he wasn't interested in any of the same things as me.
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Post by CJ on Aug 2, 2010 15:32:29 GMT -5
Quinn - You are all too right. Looking back, we had very little in common, other than both of us trying to make her happy. I suppose if you take the first person who comes along who will have you, the likelihood of compatability is not very good.
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Post by iwillsurvive on Aug 2, 2010 15:42:40 GMT -5
Thanks CJ and Quinn. Your support is very much appreciated. Didn't sleep much last night. Lots to process. In that way, the trigger of these former friends and the POA helped me to feel emotions that were still buried. I realized that I had basically blown off my POA during the last email exchange. I was polite but I let him know that I had moved on. I think he purposely danced in view of me in order to try to elicit a reaction. He didn't get one and I'm so glad that he didn't. From what I understand, narcs hate to be ignored. Good. I don't want to feed his massive ego.
My POA's gf was attractive and she bounced around while she danced like I do. She had such energy and I couldn't help but think that she will land back on earth when narc/POA does what he does: devalue and discard. I am going to pray for her. She will need it.
I feel like I passed my first POA exam. Yay! I am so grateful to all of you and to those working on this board and to my higher power. I am becoming free, not only of this POA, but of all the POAs waiting in the wings. It makes me very hopeful of a POA-free future.
CJ, I'm so glad to hear you had so much fun dancing, singing and jumping up and down (me too). And, I am especially glad that you made the connection that this was MORE fun than you had with POA. The addiction is losing its grip. Celebrating with you.
Quinn, I like your way of explaining the hypnotic state called "POA amnesia." I have really had that in the past and it always leads to more crazy. Glad you liked that quote. Jack Nicholson was the actor with that line. He had OCD and someone came to his door wanting to sell him something. It's a great line to have in your back pocket when your POA tries to suck you back into his narcissistic world.
No narcs. No POAs. No seductive withholders. Enough! They can sell crazy somewhere else. As we recover, we're not buying it anymore.
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Post by trout46 on Aug 2, 2010 15:45:21 GMT -5
Must be something in the air, as I too unexpectedly ran into the POA today when I went to the office to drop something off. I was in the process of talking to a secretary, when POA walks into the main office. I turned to see who was entering (there are so few faculty around during the summer), our eyes met for a second. I turned right back to my secretary and carried on our conversation. I was disappointed in having felt a small rush of anxiety, but it passed within a minute. All told, it was a good as I could have expected.
Sounds like you handled your encounter very well IWS. Isn't it downright empowering that we can run into them and not come apart? Whatever you thought and felt--including comparing yourself to his date--was not apparent to him, which is what counts the most! Like you, I refuse to give a narc any fuel.
If this had happened even one months ago, it probably would have had a very different result. I'm so glad the first sighting has taken place. It will make the start of the semester even easier. We can both take confidence away from our experiences!
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Post by CJ on Aug 2, 2010 15:58:16 GMT -5
IWS - Go on girl! You are awesome.
Trout - That must have been tough bumping into your Poa. I guess, in a way, it is a preview if you are going to be working in the same place. I am lucky that mine is on another continent (planet actually). I wouldn't worry about a small rush of anxiety; anything short of falling to your knees and begging your Poa to take you back is pretty good in my book.
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